Dangerous Times: The End of Denial, George Will Confirms Nixon's Vietnam Treason..

[Kurt Lochner]

http://www.americanthinker.com/2014/08/dangerous_times_isis_the_end_of_denial.html

"The Vietnam War was won by American forces in the field,
together with South Vietnamese, but it was lost in the media."

Not so, your thesis statement is a fallacy, an utter lie!

http://www.commondreams.org/views/2014/08/12/george-will-confirms-nixons-vietnam-treason

George Will Confirms Nixon's Vietnam Treason
by
Bob Fitrakis, Harvey Wasserman

"The new release of extended versions of Nixon's papers now
confirms this long-standing belief, usually dismissed as a
"conspiracy theory" by Republican conservatives. Now it has
been substantiated by none other than right-wing columnist
George Will.

Nixon's newly revealed records show for certain that in 1968,
as a presidential candidate, he ordered Anna Chennault, his
liaison to the South Vietnam government, to persuade them
refuse a cease-fire being brokered by President Lyndon Johnson.

Nixon's interference with these negotiations violated President
John Adams's 1797 Logan Act, banning private citizens from
intruding into official government negotiations with a foreign
nation.

Published as the 40th Anniversary of Nixon's resignation
approaches, Will's column confirms that Nixon feared public
disclosure of his role in sabotaging the 1968 Vietnam
peace talks. Will says Nixon established a "plumbers unit"
to stop potential leaks of information that might damage him,
including documentation he believed was held by the Brookings
Institute, a liberal think tank. The Plumbers' later break-in
at the Democratic National Committee led to the Watergate scandal
that brought Nixon down.

Nixon's sabotage of the Vietnam peace talks was confirmed by
transcripts of FBI wiretaps. On November 2, 1968, LBJ received
an FBI report saying Chernnault told the South Vietnamese
ambassador that "she had received a message from her boss:
saying the Vietnamese should "hold on, we are gonna win."

[David Hartung]

Post by Kurt Lochner

http://www.americanthinker.com/2014/08/dangerous_times_isis_the_end_of_denial.html

"The Vietnam War was won by American forces in the field,
together with South Vietnamese, but it was lost in the media."
Not so, your thesis statement is a fallacy, an utter lie!
http://www.commondreams.org/views/2014/08/12/george-will-confirms-nixons-vietnam-treason
George Will Confirms Nixon's Vietnam Treason
by
Bob Fitrakis, Harvey Wasserman
"The new release of extended versions of Nixon's papers now
confirms this long-standing belief, usually dismissed as a
"conspiracy theory" by Republican conservatives. Now it has
been substantiated by none other than right-wing columnist
George Will.
Nixon's newly revealed records show for certain that in 1968,
as a presidential candidate, he ordered Anna Chennault, his
liaison to the South Vietnam government, to persuade them
refuse a cease-fire being brokered by President Lyndon Johnson.
Nixon's interference with these negotiations violated President
John Adams's 1797 Logan Act, banning private citizens from
intruding into official government negotiations with a foreign
nation.
Published as the 40th Anniversary of Nixon's resignation
approaches, Will's column confirms that Nixon feared public
disclosure of his role in sabotaging the 1968 Vietnam
peace talks. Will says Nixon established a "plumbers unit"
to stop potential leaks of information that might damage him,
including documentation he believed was held by the Brookings
Institute, a liberal think tank. The Plumbers' later break-in
at the Democratic National Committee led to the Watergate scandal
that brought Nixon down.
Nixon's sabotage of the Vietnam peace talks was confirmed by
transcripts of FBI wiretaps. On November 2, 1968, LBJ received
an FBI report saying Chernnault told the South Vietnamese
saying the Vietnamese should "hold on, we are gonna win."

The actual Column by Will:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/george-f-will-nixons-long-shadow/2014/08/06/fad8c00c-1ccb-11e4-ae54-0cfe1f974f8a_story.html?wprss=rss_george-will

Or: http://tinyurl.com/n5wre9s

What the column says and what Fitrakis and Wasserman claim he said do
not match up. Yes, there is theory that Nixon interfered, but that is it.

In any case, neither article address the statement that the war was won
in the field but lost in the media.

[Siri Crews]

Post by David Hartung
In any case, neither article address the statement that the war was won
in the field but lost in the media.

Are you saying the military should be allowed to ignore the will of the people,
that only its judgement matters?

[David Hartung]

Post by Siri Crews

Post by David Hartung
In any case, neither article address the statement that the war was won
in the field but lost in the media.

Are you saying the military should be allowed to ignore the will of the people,
that only its judgement matters?

Go back and read the article I cited in the original post.

[Siri Crews]

Post by David Hartung

Post by Siri Crews

Post by David Hartung
In any case, neither article address the statement that the war was won
in the field but lost in the media.

Are you saying the military should be allowed to ignore the will of the people,
that only its judgement matters?

Go back and read the article I cited in the original post.

Make a decisions: does the public answer to the military or the military to the
public?

[Y***@Jurgis.net]

Post by Siri Crews

Post by David Hartung

Post by Siri Crews

Post by David Hartung
In any case, neither article address the statement that the war was won
in the field but lost in the media.

Are you saying the military should be allowed to ignore the will of the people,
that only its judgement matters?

Go back and read the article I cited in the original post.

Make a decisions: does the public answer to the military or the military to the
public?

Hartung can't

He'll take a fallacy argument---post it as factual, or truth, then
demand you accept it as fact. (pretending to what to "discuss")

THat's basic fallacy argument 101

[Y***@Jurgis.net]

On Sat, 23 Aug 2014 20:41:39 -0500, David Hartung

Post by David Hartung

Post by Siri Crews

Post by David Hartung
In any case, neither article address the statement that the war was won
in the field but lost in the media.

Are you saying the military should be allowed to ignore the will of the people,
that only its judgement matters?

Go back and read the article I cited in the original post.

Answer his question.

[Kurt Lochner]

Post by David Hartung

Post by Kurt Lochner

http://www.americanthinker.com/2014/08/dangerous_times_isis_the_end_of_denial.html

"The Vietnam War was won by American forces in the field,
together with South Vietnamese, but it was lost in the media."
Not so, your thesis statement is a fallacy, an utter lie!
http://www.commondreams.org/views/2014/08/12/george-will-confirms-nixons-vietnam-treason
George Will Confirms Nixon's Vietnam Treason
by
Bob Fitrakis, Harvey Wasserman
"The new release of extended versions of Nixon's papers now
confirms this long-standing belief, usually dismissed as a
"conspiracy theory" by Republican conservatives. Now it has
been substantiated by none other than right-wing columnist
George Will.
Nixon's newly revealed records show for certain that in 1968,
as a presidential candidate, he ordered Anna Chennault, his
liaison to the South Vietnam government, to persuade them
refuse a cease-fire being brokered by President Lyndon Johnson.
Nixon's interference with these negotiations violated President
John Adams's 1797 Logan Act, banning private citizens from
intruding into official government negotiations with a foreign
nation.
Published as the 40th Anniversary of Nixon's resignation
approaches, Will's column confirms that Nixon feared public
disclosure of his role in sabotaging the 1968 Vietnam
peace talks. Will says Nixon established a "plumbers unit"
to stop potential leaks of information that might damage him,
including documentation he believed was held by the Brookings
Institute, a liberal think tank. The Plumbers' later break-in
at the Democratic National Committee led to the Watergate scandal
that brought Nixon down.
Nixon's sabotage of the Vietnam peace talks was confirmed by
transcripts of FBI wiretaps. On November 2, 1968, LBJ received
an FBI report saying Chernnault told the South Vietnamese
saying the Vietnamese should "hold on, we are gonna win."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/george-f-will-nixons-long-shadow/2014/08/06/fad8c00c-1ccb-11e4-ae54-0cfe1f974f8a_story.html?wprss=rss_george-will
What the column says and what Fitrakis and Wasserman claim he said do
not match up.

Really? I'm reading it right now and it seems to confirm all
of the facts that Hughes has brought up, so far..

Do you dispute those facts?

[David Hartung]

Post by Kurt Lochner

Post by David Hartung

Post by Kurt Lochner

http://www.americanthinker.com/2014/08/dangerous_times_isis_the_end_of_denial.html

"The Vietnam War was won by American forces in the field,
together with South Vietnamese, but it was lost in the media."
Not so, your thesis statement is a fallacy, an utter lie!
http://www.commondreams.org/views/2014/08/12/george-will-confirms-nixons-vietnam-treason
George Will Confirms Nixon's Vietnam Treason
by
Bob Fitrakis, Harvey Wasserman
"The new release of extended versions of Nixon's papers now
confirms this long-standing belief, usually dismissed as a
"conspiracy theory" by Republican conservatives. Now it has
been substantiated by none other than right-wing columnist
George Will.
Nixon's newly revealed records show for certain that in 1968,
as a presidential candidate, he ordered Anna Chennault, his
liaison to the South Vietnam government, to persuade them
refuse a cease-fire being brokered by President Lyndon Johnson.
Nixon's interference with these negotiations violated President
John Adams's 1797 Logan Act, banning private citizens from
intruding into official government negotiations with a foreign
nation.
Published as the 40th Anniversary of Nixon's resignation
approaches, Will's column confirms that Nixon feared public
disclosure of his role in sabotaging the 1968 Vietnam
peace talks. Will says Nixon established a "plumbers unit"
to stop potential leaks of information that might damage him,
including documentation he believed was held by the Brookings
Institute, a liberal think tank. The Plumbers' later break-in
at the Democratic National Committee led to the Watergate scandal
that brought Nixon down.
Nixon's sabotage of the Vietnam peace talks was confirmed by
transcripts of FBI wiretaps. On November 2, 1968, LBJ received
an FBI report saying Chernnault told the South Vietnamese
saying the Vietnamese should "hold on, we are gonna win."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/george-f-will-nixons-long-shadow/2014/08/06/fad8c00c-1ccb-11e4-ae54-0cfe1f974f8a_story.html?wprss=rss_george-will
What the column says and what Fitrakis and Wasserman claim he said do
not match up.

Really? I'm reading it right now and it seems to confirm all
of the facts that Hughes has brought up, so far..
Do you dispute those facts?

1. What facts? The Fitrakis and Wasserman piece seems long on accusation
and short on fact. To assume that Chennault's boss was Nixon may be
reasonable, but the evidence presented in Will's column is far from
conclusive.

2. none of thei disproves the statement you challenged, which is: "The
Vietnam War was won by American forces in the field, together with South
Vietnamese, but it was lost in the media."

[Kurt Lochner]

...

Post by David Hartung

Post by Kurt Lochner

Post by David Hartung
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/george-f-will-nixons-long-shadow/2014/08/06/fad8c00c-1ccb-11e4-ae54-0cfe1f974f8a_story.html?wprss=rss_george-will
What the column says and what Fitrakis and Wasserman claim he said do
not match up.

Really? I'm reading it right now and it seems to confirm all
of the facts that Hughes has brought up, so far..
Do you dispute those facts?

1. What facts?

That Nixon undermined President Johnson's efforts to get a
cease-fire negotiated, so as to end this 'war' you've mentioned.

Post by David Hartung
To assume that Chennault's boss was Nixon may be reasonable,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Chennault#Paris_Peace_Accords

"She arranged the contact with South Vietnamese Ambassador
Bui Diem whom Richard Nixon met in secret in July 1968 in
New York.[9]

It was through Chennault's intercession[10][11] that
Republicans advised Saigon to refuse participation in the
talks, promising a better deal once elected.[12][13][14]
Records of FBI wiretaps show that Chennault phoned Bui Diem
on November 2 with the message "hold on, we are gonna win."
[15][16]

Before the elections President Johnson “suspected (…)
Richard Nixon, of political sabotage[17] that he called
treason”.

[9] Diem Bui with David Chanoff. In the Jaws of History
(April 1, 1999 ed.). Indiana University Press. p. 367.
ISBN 0-253-21301-0. p. 237.

"Waiting for me in the lobby was Anna Chennault. A few minutes
later I was being introduced to Nixon and John Mitchell, his
law partner and adviser. (…) Nixon (…) added that his staff
would be in touch with me through john Mitchell and Anna Chennault."

[10] Seymour M. Hersh. “The Price of Power: Kissinger in the
Nixon White House”. Summit Books, 1983, p. 21.

“A few days before the election, she wrote, Mitchell telephoned
with an urgent message. ‘Anna,’ (Chennault) she quotes him as
saying. ‘I'm speaking on behalf of Mr. Nixon. It's very important
that our Vietnamese friends understand our Republican position
and I hope you have made that clear to them.’”.

[11] Robert "KC" Johnson. “Did Nixon Commit Treason in 1968?
What The New LBJ Tapes Reveal”. History News Network,
January 26, 2009. Transcript from audio recording on
YouTube of President Johnson:

“Mrs. [Anna] Chennault is contacting their [South Vietnamese]
ambassador from time to time—seems to be kind of the go-between”

Post by David Hartung
but the evidence presented in Will's column is far from conclusive.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/book-review-chasing-shadows-and-the-nixon-tapes/2014/07/31/1b924262-1120-11e4-9285-4243a40ddc97_story.html

"One of these scholars is Ken Hughes, who has worked on the
Nixon tapes since 2000 as part of the ambitious Presidential
Recordings Program at the University of Virginia’s Miller Center.

His “Chasing Shadows,” the best account yet of Nixon’s devious
interference with Lyndon Johnson’s 1968 Vietnam War negotiations,
shows just how early Nixon’s dirty tricks began and just how deeply
he was involved."

Post by David Hartung
2. none of thei disproves the statement you challenged,

All of it disproves your unquoted article's thesis statement..

Post by David Hartung
which is: "The Vietnam War was won by American forces in the field,
together with South Vietnamese, but it was lost in the media."

The "Vietnam War" was lost because of the innate bungling and
political machinations of a sociopathic liar, Nixon, and all
of the overly-optimistic 'revisionism' of that fact, in support
of a phony 'war of terror' meme, is but an attempt to misdirect
the attention of the American public away from the lies that
have been told about this mythical "war on terror".

In short, David, you've been sold down the river by a political
ideology that has no concern for you or your beliefs. You're
being manipulated by the false doctrines of a failed ideology.

[David Hartung]

Post by Kurt Lochner
The "Vietnam War" was lost because of the innate bungling and
political machinations of a sociopathic liar, Nixon, and all
of the overly-optimistic 'revisionism' of that fact, in support
of a phony 'war of terror' meme, is but an attempt to misdirect
the attention of the American public away from the lies that
have been told about this mythical "war on terror".

So it was all Nixon's fault?

Really?

And you accuse me of blind partisanship.

[Kurt Lochner]

...

Post by David Hartung

Post by Kurt Lochner

Post by David Hartung
but the evidence presented in Will's column is far from conclusive.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/book-review-chasing-shadows-and-the-nixon-tapes/2014/07/31/1b924262-1120-11e4-9285-4243a40ddc97_story.html
"One of these scholars is Ken Hughes, who has worked on the
Nixon tapes since 2000 as part of the ambitious Presidential
Recordings Program at the University of Virginia’s Miller Center.
His “Chasing Shadows,” the best account yet of Nixon’s devious
interference with Lyndon Johnson’s 1968 Vietnam War negotiations,
shows just how early Nixon’s dirty tricks began and just how deeply
he was involved."

Post by David Hartung
2. none of thei disproves the statement you challenged,

All of it disproves your unquoted article's thesis statement..

Post by David Hartung
which is: "The Vietnam War was won by American forces in the field,
together with South Vietnamese, but it was lost in the media."

The "Vietnam War" was lost because of the innate bungling and
political machinations of a sociopathic liar, Nixon, and all
of the overly-optimistic 'revisionism' of that fact, in support
of a phony 'war of terror' meme, is but an attempt to misdirect
the attention of the American public away from the lies that
have been told about this mythical "war on terror".
In short, David, you've been sold down the river by a political
ideology that has no concern for you or your beliefs. You're
being manipulated by the false doctrines of a failed ideology.

So it was all Nixon's fault?

I'm sure that there were some defense contractors involved..

Post by David Hartung
Really?

Really, despite your appeals to incredulity..

Post by David Hartung
And you accuse me of blind partisanship.

Usually. Let's take a quick look at the the rest of the
'dog whistles' from your unquoted article;

"Even forty years ago the media were largely penetrated by
the hard left,"

"The left won the Vietnam War using photographic images
of the horrors of war,"

"The Democrats deprived South Vietnam of American aid,
and the result was another classic image"

"The media never cared that hundreds of thousands of
Vietnamese Boat People were rescued by American vessels
for years afterwards

"But now the tables may be turning. We are finally seeing
the sadistic cruelty of Islamist terrorfare"

Now, what was that about "blind partisanship"?

[BeamMeUpScotty]

Post by David Hartung

Post by Kurt Lochner
The "Vietnam War" was lost because of the innate bungling and
political machinations of a sociopathic liar, Nixon, and all
of the overly-optimistic 'revisionism' of that fact, in support
of a phony 'war of terror' meme, is but an attempt to misdirect
the attention of the American public away from the lies that
have been told about this mythical "war on terror".

So it was all Nixon's fault?
Really?
And you accuse me of blind partisanship.

That makes Iraq 100% Obama's fault.

[Y***@Jurgis.net]

On Sun, 24 Aug 2014 06:57:19 -0500, David Hartung

Post by David Hartung

Post by Kurt Lochner
The "Vietnam War" was lost because of the innate bungling and
political machinations of a sociopathic liar, Nixon, and all
of the overly-optimistic 'revisionism' of that fact, in support
of a phony 'war of terror' meme, is but an attempt to misdirect
the attention of the American public away from the lies that
have been told about this mythical "war on terror".

So it was all Nixon's fault?
Really?

Actually, the VietNam war was the fault of neo-cons that had undue
influence just as they do today.

That would be conservatives, you wingnut

[Y***@Jurgis.net]

On Sat, 23 Aug 2014 21:07:21 -0500, Kurt Lochner

Post by Kurt Lochner

Post by David Hartung
What the column says and what Fitrakis and Wasserman claim he said do
not match up.

Really? I'm reading it right now and it seems to confirm all
of the facts that Hughes has brought up, so far..
Do you dispute those facts?

Hartung disputes his warrant is a fallacy claim

Start with making him prove his claim is a valid claim, not a logical
fallacy

[Kurt Lochner]

..

Post by Y***@Jurgis.net

Post by Kurt Lochner

Post by David Hartung
What the column says and what Fitrakis and Wasserman claim
he said do not match up.

Really? I'm reading it right now and it seems to confirm all
of the facts that Hughes has brought up, so far..
Do you dispute those facts?

Hartung disputes his warrant is a fallacy claim

Yup, lots of 'dog whistles' in that article. to wit;

"Even forty years ago the media were largely penetrated by
the hard left,"

"The left won the Vietnam War using photographic images
of the horrors of war,"

"The Democrats deprived South Vietnam of American aid,
and the result was another classic image"

"The media never cared that hundreds of thousands of
Vietnamese Boat People were rescued by American vessels
for years afterwards

"But now the tables may be turning. We are finally seeing
the sadistic cruelty of Islamist terrorfare"

Post by Y***@Jurgis.net
Start with making him prove his claim is a valid claim,
not a logical fallacy

I don't think that he cares, other than to legitimize his
beliefs.

[Mr. B1ack]

On Sat, 23 Aug 2014 21:07:21 -0500, Kurt Lochner

Post by Kurt Lochner

Post by David Hartung

Post by Kurt Lochner

http://www.americanthinker.com/2014/08/dangerous_times_isis_the_end_of_denial.html

"The Vietnam War was won by American forces in the field,
together with South Vietnamese, but it was lost in the media."
Not so, your thesis statement is a fallacy, an utter lie!
http://www.commondreams.org/views/2014/08/12/george-will-confirms-nixons-vietnam-treason
George Will Confirms Nixon's Vietnam Treason
by
Bob Fitrakis, Harvey Wasserman
"The new release of extended versions of Nixon's papers now
confirms this long-standing belief, usually dismissed as a
"conspiracy theory" by Republican conservatives. Now it has
been substantiated by none other than right-wing columnist
George Will.
Nixon's newly revealed records show for certain that in 1968,
as a presidential candidate, he ordered Anna Chennault, his
liaison to the South Vietnam government, to persuade them
refuse a cease-fire being brokered by President Lyndon Johnson.
Nixon's interference with these negotiations violated President
John Adams's 1797 Logan Act, banning private citizens from
intruding into official government negotiations with a foreign
nation.
Published as the 40th Anniversary of Nixon's resignation
approaches, Will's column confirms that Nixon feared public
disclosure of his role in sabotaging the 1968 Vietnam
peace talks. Will says Nixon established a "plumbers unit"
to stop potential leaks of information that might damage him,
including documentation he believed was held by the Brookings
Institute, a liberal think tank. The Plumbers' later break-in
at the Democratic National Committee led to the Watergate scandal
that brought Nixon down.
Nixon's sabotage of the Vietnam peace talks was confirmed by
transcripts of FBI wiretaps. On November 2, 1968, LBJ received
an FBI report saying Chernnault told the South Vietnamese
saying the Vietnamese should "hold on, we are gonna win."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/george-f-will-nixons-long-shadow/2014/08/06/fad8c00c-1ccb-11e4-ae54-0cfe1f974f8a_story.html?wprss=rss_george-will
What the column says and what Fitrakis and Wasserman claim he said do
not match up.

Really? I'm reading it right now and it seems to confirm all
of the facts that Hughes has brought up, so far..
Do you dispute those facts?

Ya know ... individual congressmen/senators STILL dabble
in "individual diplomacy", striking personal deals with foreign
leaders - and then expecting everybody else to follow.

Nothing unusual about Nixon doing that.

[Kurt Lochner]

Post by Mr. B1ack

Post by Kurt Lochner

Post by David Hartung

Post by Kurt Lochner

http://www.americanthinker.com/2014/08/dangerous_times_isis_the_end_of_denial.html

"The Vietnam War was won by American forces in the field,
together with South Vietnamese, but it was lost in the media."
Not so, your thesis statement is a fallacy, an utter lie!
http://www.commondreams.org/views/2014/08/12/george-will-confirms-nixons-vietnam-treason
George Will Confirms Nixon's Vietnam Treason
by
Bob Fitrakis, Harvey Wasserman
"The new release of extended versions of Nixon's papers now
confirms this long-standing belief, usually dismissed as a
"conspiracy theory" by Republican conservatives. Now it has
been substantiated by none other than right-wing columnist
George Will.
Nixon's newly revealed records show for certain that in 1968,
as a presidential candidate, he ordered Anna Chennault, his
liaison to the South Vietnam government, to persuade them
refuse a cease-fire being brokered by President Lyndon Johnson.
Nixon's interference with these negotiations violated President
John Adams's 1797 Logan Act, banning private citizens from
intruding into official government negotiations with a foreign
nation.
Published as the 40th Anniversary of Nixon's resignation
approaches, Will's column confirms that Nixon feared public
disclosure of his role in sabotaging the 1968 Vietnam
peace talks. Will says Nixon established a "plumbers unit"
to stop potential leaks of information that might damage him,
including documentation he believed was held by the Brookings
Institute, a liberal think tank. The Plumbers' later break-in
at the Democratic National Committee led to the Watergate scandal
that brought Nixon down.
Nixon's sabotage of the Vietnam peace talks was confirmed by
transcripts of FBI wiretaps. On November 2, 1968, LBJ received
an FBI report saying Chernnault told the South Vietnamese
saying the Vietnamese should "hold on, we are gonna win."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/george-f-will-nixons-long-shadow/2014/08/06/fad8c00c-1ccb-11e4-ae54-0cfe1f974f8a_story.html?wprss=rss_george-will
What the column says and what Fitrakis and Wasserman claim he said do
not match up.

Really? I'm reading it right now and it seems to confirm all
of the facts that Hughes has brought up, so far..
Do you dispute those facts?

Ya know ... individual congressmen/senators STILL dabble
in "individual diplomacy",

That still Violates the Logan Act..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logan_Act#Government_action_under_the_Act

"During the 1968 presidential election, Richard Nixon campaign
officials, through Anna Chennault, advised Saigon to refuse
participation in peace talks, promising a better deal once
elected.[5] Defense Secretary Clark Clifford thought the move
illegal, and President Lyndon B. Johnson called it treasonous,
but did not want to reveal that the NSA was intercepting
communications in Vietnam."

Post by Mr. B1ack
Nothing unusual about Nixon doing that.

Incorrect..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Chennault#cite_note-13

[13]"Robert "KC" Johnson. “Did Nixon Commit Treason in 1968?
What The New LBJ Tapes Reveal”. History News Network,
January 26, 2009. Transcript from audio recording on
YouTube of President Johnson:

“The next thing that we got our teeth in was one of his associates
—a fellow named [John] Mitchell, who is running his campaign, who’s
the real Sherman Adams (Eisenhower’s chief of staff) of the operation,
in effect said to a businessman that ‘we’re going to handle this
like we handled the Fortas matter, unquote. We’re going to frustrate
the President by saying to the South Vietnamese, and the Koreans,
and the Thailanders [sic], “Beware of Johnson.”’ ‘At the same time,
we’re going to say to Hanoi, “I [Nixon] can make a better deal than
he (Johnson) has, because I’m fresh and new, and I don’t have to
demand as much as he does in the light of past positions.”’”

So, no, we did not 'win' that war, withdrew from it after it became
self-evident that it was a lost cause, and was the end of Nixon's
polemics about a "Cold War". Similar can be said of Iraq and the
Afghanistan "war on terror, too.

[Mr. B1ack]

On Sun, 24 Aug 2014 07:24:37 -0500, Kurt Lochner

Post by Kurt Lochner

Post by Mr. B1ack

Post by Kurt Lochner

Post by David Hartung

Post by Kurt Lochner

http://www.americanthinker.com/2014/08/dangerous_times_isis_the_end_of_denial.html

"The Vietnam War was won by American forces in the field,
together with South Vietnamese, but it was lost in the media."
Not so, your thesis statement is a fallacy, an utter lie!
http://www.commondreams.org/views/2014/08/12/george-will-confirms-nixons-vietnam-treason
George Will Confirms Nixon's Vietnam Treason
by
Bob Fitrakis, Harvey Wasserman
"The new release of extended versions of Nixon's papers now
confirms this long-standing belief, usually dismissed as a
"conspiracy theory" by Republican conservatives. Now it has
been substantiated by none other than right-wing columnist
George Will.
Nixon's newly revealed records show for certain that in 1968,
as a presidential candidate, he ordered Anna Chennault, his
liaison to the South Vietnam government, to persuade them
refuse a cease-fire being brokered by President Lyndon Johnson.
Nixon's interference with these negotiations violated President
John Adams's 1797 Logan Act, banning private citizens from
intruding into official government negotiations with a foreign
nation.
Published as the 40th Anniversary of Nixon's resignation
approaches, Will's column confirms that Nixon feared public
disclosure of his role in sabotaging the 1968 Vietnam
peace talks. Will says Nixon established a "plumbers unit"
to stop potential leaks of information that might damage him,
including documentation he believed was held by the Brookings
Institute, a liberal think tank. The Plumbers' later break-in
at the Democratic National Committee led to the Watergate scandal
that brought Nixon down.
Nixon's sabotage of the Vietnam peace talks was confirmed by
transcripts of FBI wiretaps. On November 2, 1968, LBJ received
an FBI report saying Chernnault told the South Vietnamese
saying the Vietnamese should "hold on, we are gonna win."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/george-f-will-nixons-long-shadow/2014/08/06/fad8c00c-1ccb-11e4-ae54-0cfe1f974f8a_story.html?wprss=rss_george-will
What the column says and what Fitrakis and Wasserman claim he said do
not match up.

Really? I'm reading it right now and it seems to confirm all
of the facts that Hughes has brought up, so far..
Do you dispute those facts?

Ya know ... individual congressmen/senators STILL dabble
in "individual diplomacy",

That still Violates the Logan Act..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logan_Act#Government_action_under_the_Act
"During the 1968 presidential election, Richard Nixon campaign
officials, through Anna Chennault, advised Saigon to refuse
participation in peace talks, promising a better deal once
elected.[5] Defense Secretary Clark Clifford thought the move
illegal, and President Lyndon B. Johnson called it treasonous,
but did not want to reveal that the NSA was intercepting
communications in Vietnam."

Post by Mr. B1ack
Nothing unusual about Nixon doing that.

Incorrect..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Chennault#cite_note-13
[13]"Robert "KC" Johnson. “Did Nixon Commit Treason in 1968?
What The New LBJ Tapes Reveal”. History News Network,
January 26, 2009. Transcript from audio recording on
“The next thing that we got our teeth in was one of his associates
—a fellow named [John] Mitchell, who is running his campaign, who’s
the real Sherman Adams (Eisenhower’s chief of staff) of the operation,
in effect said to a businessman that ‘we’re going to handle this
like we handled the Fortas matter, unquote. We’re going to frustrate
the President by saying to the South Vietnamese, and the Koreans,
and the Thailanders [sic], “Beware of Johnson.”’ ‘At the same time,
we’re going to say to Hanoi, “I [Nixon] can make a better deal than
he (Johnson) has, because I’m fresh and new, and I don’t have to
demand as much as he does in the light of past positions.”’”

Doesn't sound like "treason" ... more "politics as usual".

"Better deal once elected" ... ya have to KNOW you're
elected before that means anything. Sarah Palin can
tell Putin things too ... but it'd just be a big laugh at
the Kremlin if she did.

I've always wondered about the Iran embassy hostage
thing ... no progress at all until pretty much the exact
moment Reagan was sworn in. Were they afraid of
Reagan, or had his people encouraged Iran to stand
pat, just to embarass Carter all the more ?

Post by Kurt Lochner
So, no, we did not 'win' that war, withdrew from it after it became
self-evident that it was a lost cause, and was the end of Nixon's
polemics about a "Cold War". Similar can be said of Iraq and the
Afghanistan "war on terror, too.

Yep, lost cause ... just like our current (and
imminently-recurrent) wars. I don't think LBJ
really *could* end it - he'd become far too
vested in it being a "good/necessary war".
Humphrey might have found himself in the
same boat ... though with the *partys* rep
deeply vested in the war more than himself.

So, Nixon probably WAS the only way out, at
least insofar as saving face was concerned.
He was the genuine "new deal". No POINT in
continuing any old negotiation thread because
it'd be null and void if The Dick won. Hanoi would
have known that. Saigon, well, who the fuck
knows fer sure ? There are getting to be as
many alternate 'realities' about the Vietnam war
as there are about the JFK thing - and they all
sound *just* true enough so you'd never know
the ACTUAL truth even if it clamped onto your
face like the movie Alien larva.

"Disinformation via obfuscation" ... there's gotta
be a cleaner term for that, burying truth under an
overload of competing 'truths' ....

[Mr. B1ack]

Oh yea ... just a question ... if you think Nixon was
a "traitor" - what do you plan to DO about it ? The
guy's been dead for a LONG time now. Gonna put
his bones on trial ??? Just wondering.

[Sid9]

Post by Mr. B1ack
Oh yea ... just a question ... if you think Nixon was
a "traitor" - what do you plan to DO about it ? The
guy's been dead for a LONG time now. Gonna put
his bones on trial ??? Just wondering.

A monument of what a Republican president did.....then move on to bush,jr's
crimes and what he did.

[Mr. B1ack]

Post by Sid9

Post by Mr. B1ack
Oh yea ... just a question ... if you think Nixon was
a "traitor" - what do you plan to DO about it ? The
guy's been dead for a LONG time now. Gonna put
his bones on trial ??? Just wondering.

A monument of what a Republican president did.....then move on to bush,jr's
crimes and what he did.

Ah ... partisanship over statesmanship ..... everything we've
come to expect these days.

Oh well, a few years hence they'll tear apart the Obama
presidency, discovering all his crimes. Then they'll hold
that up as a momument to what Dem presidents do .....

And again, no good will come of it.

[Gronk]

Post by Y***@Jurgis.net
On Sat, 23 Aug 2014 21:07:21 -0500, Kurt Lochner

http://www.americanthinker.com/2014/08/dangerous_times_isis_the_end_of_denial.html

Post by Y***@Jurgis.net

Post by Kurt Lochner

Post by David Hartung

Post by Kurt Lochner
"The Vietnam War was won by American forces in the field,
together with South Vietnamese, but it was lost in the media."
Not so, your thesis statement is a fallacy, an utter lie!

http://www.commondreams.org/views/2014/08/12/george-will-confirms-nixons-vietnam-treason

Post by Y***@Jurgis.net

Post by Kurt Lochner

Post by David Hartung

Post by Kurt Lochner
George Will Confirms Nixon's Vietnam Treason
by
Bob Fitrakis, Harvey Wasserman
"The new release of extended versions of Nixon's papers now
confirms this long-standing belief, usually dismissed as a
"conspiracy theory" by Republican conservatives. Now it has
been substantiated by none other than right-wing columnist
George Will.
Nixon's newly revealed records show for certain that in 1968,
as a presidential candidate, he ordered Anna Chennault, his
liaison to the South Vietnam government, to persuade them
refuse a cease-fire being brokered by President Lyndon Johnson.
Nixon's interference with these negotiations violated President
John Adams's 1797 Logan Act, banning private citizens from
intruding into official government negotiations with a foreign
nation.
Published as the 40th Anniversary of Nixon's resignation
approaches, Will's column confirms that Nixon feared public
disclosure of his role in sabotaging the 1968 Vietnam
peace talks. Will says Nixon established a "plumbers unit"
to stop potential leaks of information that might damage him,
including documentation he believed was held by the Brookings
Institute, a liberal think tank. The Plumbers' later break-in
at the Democratic National Committee led to the Watergate scandal
that brought Nixon down.
Nixon's sabotage of the Vietnam peace talks was confirmed by
transcripts of FBI wiretaps. On November 2, 1968, LBJ received
an FBI report saying Chernnault told the South Vietnamese
saying the Vietnamese should "hold on, we are gonna win."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/george-f-will-nixons-long-shadow/2014/08/06/fad8c00c-1ccb-11e4-ae54-0cfe1f974f8a_story.html?wprss=rss_george-will

Post by Y***@Jurgis.net

Post by Kurt Lochner

Post by David Hartung
What the column says and what Fitrakis and Wasserman claim he said do
not match up.

Really? I'm reading it right now and it seems to confirm all
of the facts that Hughes has brought up, so far..
Do you dispute those facts?

Ya know ... individual congressmen/senators STILL dabble

Like who?

Post by Y***@Jurgis.net
in "individual diplomacy", striking personal deals with foreign
leaders - and then expecting everybody else to follow.