Discussion:
Right on!: Say Goodbye to Europe
(too old to reply)
Captain Compassion
2007-01-10 03:17:58 UTC
Permalink
Right on!: Say Goodbye to Europe
Michael Freund, THE JERUSALEM POST Jan. 9, 2007

If you ever wanted to see Paris or Rome before you die, but haven't
had a chance to do so, you might want to hurry. Soon enough, most of
what we now think of as Western Europe will be transformed into a
branch of the Muslim world, which is sure to make it an even less
welcoming place for Americans, Israelis and for Jews.

That, at least, is the unpleasant, yet entirely unavoidable conclusion
to be drawn from Europe's headlong demographic drive toward oblivion.

Think I'm exaggerating? Consider a few cold hard facts.

According to a recent report by the Rand Corporation, "Across Europe,
birth rates are falling and family sizes are shrinking. The total
fertility rate is now less than two children per woman in every member
nation in the European Union."

Needless to say, demographers consider a birthrate of 2.1 children per
family to be the replacement level at which a society's population
size remains stable. Barring large-scale immigration, anything less
means decline and dissolution.

A research study published last year in the International Journal of
Andrology found a similar trend, concluding that, "Fertility rates
have fallen and are now below replacement level in all European Union
(EU) Member States. In the 20-year period since 1982," it noted, "most
EU Member State countries have had total fertility rates continuously
below replacement level."

At the bottom of the list are Spain, Italy and Greece, where
birthrates hover around just 1.3 per couple, leading some forecasters
to suggest, for example, that Italy's population could shrink by
one-third by the middle of the century.

Others, such as Germany's 1.37, the UK's 1.74 and Sweden's 1.75,
aren't all much better.

The figures are so bad that in many European countries, the total
number of deaths each year has actually begun to exceed the number of
births.

Indeed, the Council of Europe's 2004 Demographic Yearbook warned that,
"for Europe as a whole, more people died in 2003 than were born." In
1990, said the yearbook, "three countries - Germany, Bulgaria and
Hungary - had negative natural growth for the first time. By 2002, it
was negative in fifteen countries."

LAST YEAR, after the publication of statistics revealing that 30
percent of German women have not had children, Germany's family
minister, Ursula von der Leyen, caused a stir when she said that if
her nation's birth rate did not turn around, the country would have to
"turn out the light." And while Europeans may be busy everywhere but
in the bedroom, the Muslim populations in their midst are proving far
more expansive.

As columnist Mark Steyn points out in his must-read new book, America
Alone, "What's the Muslim population of Rotterdam? Forty percent.
What's the most popular baby boy's name in Belgium? Mohammed. In
Amsterdam? Mohammed. In Malmo, Sweden? Mohammed."

Last month, the UK Daily Telegraph reported that, "Mohammed, and its
most common alternative spelling Muhammad, are now more popular
babies' names in England and Wales than George."

This, said the paper, using typically British understatement,
"reflects the diverse ethnic mix of the population."

But that "mix," so to speak, is rapidly changing - and not in
traditional Europe's favor.

ISLAM, BY all accounts, is the fastest growing religion in Europe,
spurred by immigration and high fertility rates. According to
projections by the US federal government's National Intelligence
Council, the continent's current Muslim population of 20 million will
likely double by 2025.

And as Bruce Bawer noted last year in While Europe Slept, "Already, in
most of Western Europe, 16 to 20 percent of children are
Muslims…within a couple of generations many [European] countries will
have Muslim majorities."

Not since September 8, 1683, when the Ottomans were threatening to
breach the walls of Vienna, has Islam been so perilously close to
seizing control over Western Europe.

The implications of all this are far graver than we can even begin to
imagine, and it is not just a matter of choosing new and more
hospitable tourist destinations.

An increasingly Islamified Europe will prove ever more hostile to
Israel and America, and this trend will only intensify as the Muslim
population there continues to grow.

Even if European governments succeed in reversing the curve, which
seems highly unlikely, it will be decades before it would begin to be
felt. In the meantime, however, Muslim political power on the
continent will develop and expand, and European leaders will be
hard-pressed to ignore their demands.

This makes it far less likely that Israel and the US can count on
Europe - if they ever really could - at times of crisis in the decades
ahead. Just pick an issue, from the war on terror to Palestinian
statehood, and you'll see what I mean.

For however unbalanced Europe's stance has been until now, it will
likely only grow worse in the years to come.

Europe as we know it is a thing of the past, and it is time for
Israeli and American decision-makers to take this into account as they
plan for the future. The face of Europe is changing rapidly, and with
it the continent's social and political make-up.

So if you really want to see the Eiffel Tower up close, you had best
not delay. Before you know it, it might just turn into a minaret.
--
Wherever I go it will be well with me, for it was well with me here, not
on account of the place, but of my judgments which I shall carry away
with me, for no one can deprive me of these; on the contrary, they alone
are my property, and cannot be taken away, and to possess them suffices
me wherever I am or whatever I do. -- EPICTETUS

"There are no absolute certainties in this universe. A man must try to
whip order into a yelping pack of probabilities, and uniform success is
impossible." -- Jack Vance

"Civilization is the interval between Ice Ages." -- Will Durant.


"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant

Joseph R. Darancette
***@NOSPAMverizon.net
m***@aol.com
2007-01-10 09:46:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Captain Compassion
Right on!: Say Goodbye to Europe
Michael Freund, THE JERUSALEM POST Jan. 9, 2007
If you ever wanted to see Paris or Rome before you die, but haven't
had a chance to do so, you might want to hurry. Soon enough, most of
what we now think of as Western Europe will be transformed into a
branch of the Muslim world, which is sure to make it an even less
welcoming place for Americans, Israelis and for Jews.
That, at least, is the unpleasant, yet entirely unavoidable conclusion
to be drawn from Europe's headlong demographic drive toward oblivion.
Think I'm exaggerating? Consider a few cold hard facts.
According to a recent report by the Rand Corporation, "Across Europe,
birth rates are falling and family sizes are shrinking. The total
fertility rate is now less than two children per woman in every member
nation in the European Union."
Needless to say, demographers consider a birthrate of 2.1 children per
family to be the replacement level at which a society's population
size remains stable. Barring large-scale immigration, anything less
means decline and dissolution.
A research study published last year in the International Journal of
Andrology found a similar trend, concluding that, "Fertility rates
have fallen and are now below replacement level in all European Union
(EU) Member States. In the 20-year period since 1982," it noted, "most
EU Member State countries have had total fertility rates continuously
below replacement level."
At the bottom of the list are Spain, Italy and Greece, where
birthrates hover around just 1.3 per couple, leading some forecasters
to suggest, for example, that Italy's population could shrink by
one-third by the middle of the century.
Others, such as Germany's 1.37, the UK's 1.74 and Sweden's 1.75,
aren't all much better.
The figures are so bad that in many European countries, the total
number of deaths each year has actually begun to exceed the number of
births.
Indeed, the Council of Europe's 2004 Demographic Yearbook warned that,
"for Europe as a whole, more people died in 2003 than were born." In
1990, said the yearbook, "three countries - Germany, Bulgaria and
Hungary - had negative natural growth for the first time. By 2002, it
was negative in fifteen countries."
LAST YEAR, after the publication of statistics revealing that 30
percent of German women have not had children, Germany's family
minister, Ursula von der Leyen, caused a stir when she said that if
her nation's birth rate did not turn around, the country would have to
"turn out the light." And while Europeans may be busy everywhere but
in the bedroom, the Muslim populations in their midst are proving far
more expansive.
As columnist Mark Steyn points out in his must-read new book, America
Alone, "What's the Muslim population of Rotterdam? Forty percent.
What's the most popular baby boy's name in Belgium? Mohammed. In
Amsterdam? Mohammed. In Malmo, Sweden? Mohammed."
Last month, the UK Daily Telegraph reported that, "Mohammed, and its
most common alternative spelling Muhammad, are now more popular
babies' names in England and Wales than George."
This, said the paper, using typically British understatement,
"reflects the diverse ethnic mix of the population."
But that "mix," so to speak, is rapidly changing - and not in
traditional Europe's favor.
ISLAM, BY all accounts, is the fastest growing religion in Europe,
spurred by immigration and high fertility rates. According to
projections by the US federal government's National Intelligence
Council, the continent's current Muslim population of 20 million will
likely double by 2025.
And as Bruce Bawer noted last year in While Europe Slept, "Already, in
most of Western Europe, 16 to 20 percent of children are
Muslims...within a couple of generations many [European] countries will
have Muslim majorities."
Not since September 8, 1683, when the Ottomans were threatening to
breach the walls of Vienna, has Islam been so perilously close to
seizing control over Western Europe.
The implications of all this are far graver than we can even begin to
imagine, and it is not just a matter of choosing new and more
hospitable tourist destinations.
An increasingly Islamified Europe will prove ever more hostile to
Israel and America, and this trend will only intensify as the Muslim
population there continues to grow.
Even if European governments succeed in reversing the curve, which
seems highly unlikely, it will be decades before it would begin to be
felt. In the meantime, however, Muslim political power on the
continent will develop and expand, and European leaders will be
hard-pressed to ignore their demands.
This makes it far less likely that Israel and the US can count on
Europe - if they ever really could - at times of crisis in the decades
ahead. Just pick an issue, from the war on terror to Palestinian
statehood, and you'll see what I mean.
For however unbalanced Europe's stance has been until now, it will
likely only grow worse in the years to come.
Europe as we know it is a thing of the past, and it is time for
Israeli and American decision-makers to take this into account as they
plan for the future. The face of Europe is changing rapidly, and with
it the continent's social and political make-up.
So if you really want to see the Eiffel Tower up close, you had best
not delay. Before you know it, it might just turn into a minaret.
--
Wherever I go it will be well with me, for it was well with me here, not
on account of the place, but of my judgments which I shall carry away
with me, for no one can deprive me of these; on the contrary, they alone
are my property, and cannot be taken away, and to possess them suffices
me wherever I am or whatever I do. -- EPICTETUS
"There are no absolute certainties in this universe. A man must try to
whip order into a yelping pack of probabilities, and uniform success is
impossible." -- Jack Vance
"Civilization is the interval between Ice Ages." -- Will Durant.
"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant
Joseph R. Darancette
Islam did not do nothing wrong to me or us Americans....who did was the
mizererable American policy in the niddle east....and our so called
friends the Jews and those Chrictians who like them to death...
Scotius
2007-01-10 11:44:27 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 19:17:58 -0800, Captain Compassion
Post by Captain Compassion
Right on!: Say Goodbye to Europe
Michael Freund, THE JERUSALEM POST Jan. 9, 2007
If you ever wanted to see Paris or Rome before you die, but haven't
had a chance to do so, you might want to hurry. Soon enough, most of
what we now think of as Western Europe will be transformed into a
branch of the Muslim world, which is sure to make it an even less
welcoming place for Americans, Israelis and for Jews.
That, at least, is the unpleasant, yet entirely unavoidable conclusion
to be drawn from Europe's headlong demographic drive toward oblivion.
Think I'm exaggerating? Consider a few cold hard facts.
According to a recent report by the Rand Corporation, "Across Europe,
birth rates are falling and family sizes are shrinking. The total
fertility rate is now less than two children per woman in every member
nation in the European Union."
Supposedly, one in three young males around the age of 18 in
France is an Arab. Well, let me just say ... good. France would be a
better country if it was run by Muslims than it is now. They may not
get along with Israel, but they're more honorable than the Europeans.
Post by Captain Compassion
Needless to say, demographers consider a birthrate of 2.1 children per
family to be the replacement level at which a society's population
size remains stable. Barring large-scale immigration, anything less
means decline and dissolution.
A research study published last year in the International Journal of
Andrology found a similar trend, concluding that, "Fertility rates
have fallen and are now below replacement level in all European Union
(EU) Member States. In the 20-year period since 1982," it noted, "most
EU Member State countries have had total fertility rates continuously
below replacement level."
At the bottom of the list are Spain, Italy and Greece, where
birthrates hover around just 1.3 per couple, leading some forecasters
to suggest, for example, that Italy's population could shrink by
one-third by the middle of the century.
Others, such as Germany's 1.37, the UK's 1.74 and Sweden's 1.75,
aren't all much better.
The figures are so bad that in many European countries, the total
number of deaths each year has actually begun to exceed the number of
births.
Indeed, the Council of Europe's 2004 Demographic Yearbook warned that,
"for Europe as a whole, more people died in 2003 than were born." In
1990, said the yearbook, "three countries - Germany, Bulgaria and
Hungary - had negative natural growth for the first time. By 2002, it
was negative in fifteen countries."
LAST YEAR, after the publication of statistics revealing that 30
percent of German women have not had children, Germany's family
minister, Ursula von der Leyen, caused a stir when she said that if
her nation's birth rate did not turn around, the country would have to
"turn out the light." And while Europeans may be busy everywhere but
in the bedroom, the Muslim populations in their midst are proving far
more expansive.
As columnist Mark Steyn points out in his must-read new book, America
Alone, "What's the Muslim population of Rotterdam? Forty percent.
What's the most popular baby boy's name in Belgium? Mohammed. In
Amsterdam? Mohammed. In Malmo, Sweden? Mohammed."
Last month, the UK Daily Telegraph reported that, "Mohammed, and its
most common alternative spelling Muhammad, are now more popular
babies' names in England and Wales than George."
This, said the paper, using typically British understatement,
"reflects the diverse ethnic mix of the population."
But that "mix," so to speak, is rapidly changing - and not in
traditional Europe's favor.
ISLAM, BY all accounts, is the fastest growing religion in Europe,
spurred by immigration and high fertility rates. According to
projections by the US federal government's National Intelligence
Council, the continent's current Muslim population of 20 million will
likely double by 2025.
And as Bruce Bawer noted last year in While Europe Slept, "Already, in
most of Western Europe, 16 to 20 percent of children are
Muslims…within a couple of generations many [European] countries will
have Muslim majorities."
Not since September 8, 1683, when the Ottomans were threatening to
breach the walls of Vienna, has Islam been so perilously close to
seizing control over Western Europe.
The implications of all this are far graver than we can even begin to
imagine, and it is not just a matter of choosing new and more
hospitable tourist destinations.
An increasingly Islamified Europe will prove ever more hostile to
Israel and America, and this trend will only intensify as the Muslim
population there continues to grow.
Even if European governments succeed in reversing the curve, which
seems highly unlikely, it will be decades before it would begin to be
felt. In the meantime, however, Muslim political power on the
continent will develop and expand, and European leaders will be
hard-pressed to ignore their demands.
This makes it far less likely that Israel and the US can count on
Europe - if they ever really could - at times of crisis in the decades
ahead. Just pick an issue, from the war on terror to Palestinian
statehood, and you'll see what I mean.
For however unbalanced Europe's stance has been until now, it will
likely only grow worse in the years to come.
Europe as we know it is a thing of the past, and it is time for
Israeli and American decision-makers to take this into account as they
plan for the future. The face of Europe is changing rapidly, and with
it the continent's social and political make-up.
So if you really want to see the Eiffel Tower up close, you had best
not delay. Before you know it, it might just turn into a minaret.
Parsifal
2007-01-10 14:13:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Captain Compassion
Right on!: Say Goodbye to Europe
Michael Freund, THE JERUSALEM POST Jan. 9, 2007
If you ever wanted to see Paris or Rome before you die, but haven't
had a chance to do so, you might want to hurry. Soon enough, most of
what we now think of as Western Europe will be transformed into a
branch of the Muslim world, which is sure to make it an even less
welcoming place for Americans, Israelis and for Jews.
Why are you posting this, Captain? Ever been to Europe? To Paris and
Rome among others?
Or do you simply repeat what you find that fits to your "agenda"?
Captain Compassion
2007-01-10 17:25:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Parsifal
Post by Captain Compassion
Right on!: Say Goodbye to Europe
Michael Freund, THE JERUSALEM POST Jan. 9, 2007
If you ever wanted to see Paris or Rome before you die, but haven't
had a chance to do so, you might want to hurry. Soon enough, most of
what we now think of as Western Europe will be transformed into a
branch of the Muslim world, which is sure to make it an even less
welcoming place for Americans, Israelis and for Jews.
Why are you posting this, Captain? Ever been to Europe? To Paris and
Rome among others?
Or do you simply repeat what you find that fits to your "agenda"?
No. Most of my international travels have been to the east.

If you don't believe the story then look at the demographics. You can
also read. First try "While Europe Slept" by Bruce Bawer. Bawer is
hardly a Conservative.

My personal "agenda" involves doing more trout fishing in 2007.
--
Wherever I go it will be well with me, for it was well with me here, not
on account of the place, but of my judgments which I shall carry away
with me, for no one can deprive me of these; on the contrary, they alone
are my property, and cannot be taken away, and to possess them suffices
me wherever I am or whatever I do. -- EPICTETUS

"There are no absolute certainties in this universe. A man must try to
whip order into a yelping pack of probabilities, and uniform success is
impossible." -- Jack Vance

"Civilization is the interval between Ice Ages." -- Will Durant.


"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant

Joseph R. Darancette
***@NOSPAMverizon.net
Erik A. Mattila
2007-01-10 21:29:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Captain Compassion
Post by Parsifal
Post by Captain Compassion
Right on!: Say Goodbye to Europe
Michael Freund, THE JERUSALEM POST Jan. 9, 2007
If you ever wanted to see Paris or Rome before you die, but haven't
had a chance to do so, you might want to hurry. Soon enough, most of
what we now think of as Western Europe will be transformed into a
branch of the Muslim world, which is sure to make it an even less
welcoming place for Americans, Israelis and for Jews.
Why are you posting this, Captain? Ever been to Europe? To Paris and
Rome among others?
Or do you simply repeat what you find that fits to your "agenda"?
No. Most of my international travels have been to the east.
If you don't believe the story then look at the demographics. You can
also read. First try "While Europe Slept" by Bruce Bawer. Bawer is
hardly a Conservative.
My personal "agenda" involves doing more trout fishing in 2007.
You should reconsider. Global warming will kill all the trout.
Captain Compassion
2007-01-11 02:42:13 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 13:29:08 -0800, "Erik A. Mattila"
Post by Erik A. Mattila
Post by Captain Compassion
Post by Parsifal
Post by Captain Compassion
Right on!: Say Goodbye to Europe
Michael Freund, THE JERUSALEM POST Jan. 9, 2007
If you ever wanted to see Paris or Rome before you die, but haven't
had a chance to do so, you might want to hurry. Soon enough, most of
what we now think of as Western Europe will be transformed into a
branch of the Muslim world, which is sure to make it an even less
welcoming place for Americans, Israelis and for Jews.
Why are you posting this, Captain? Ever been to Europe? To Paris and
Rome among others?
Or do you simply repeat what you find that fits to your "agenda"?
No. Most of my international travels have been to the east.
If you don't believe the story then look at the demographics. You can
also read. First try "While Europe Slept" by Bruce Bawer. Bawer is
hardly a Conservative.
My personal "agenda" involves doing more trout fishing in 2007.
You should reconsider. Global warming will kill all the trout.
I suspect that they will be there this spring. If not I'll go after
bass.
--
Wherever I go it will be well with me, for it was well with me here, not
on account of the place, but of my judgments which I shall carry away
with me, for no one can deprive me of these; on the contrary, they alone
are my property, and cannot be taken away, and to possess them suffices
me wherever I am or whatever I do. -- EPICTETUS

"There are no absolute certainties in this universe. A man must try to
whip order into a yelping pack of probabilities, and uniform success is
impossible." -- Jack Vance

"Civilization is the interval between Ice Ages." -- Will Durant.


"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant

Joseph R. Darancette
***@NOSPAMverizon.net
Jeffrey Turner
2007-01-10 15:15:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Captain Compassion
Right on!: Say Goodbye to Europe
Michael Freund, THE JERUSALEM POST Jan. 9, 2007
If you ever wanted to see Paris or Rome before you die, but haven't
had a chance to do so, you might want to hurry. Soon enough, most of
what we now think of as Western Europe will be transformed into a
branch of the Muslim world, which is sure to make it an even less
welcoming place for Americans, Israelis and for Jews.
Oh no! Run away! The whole white, {Judeo-)Christian world is about to
be destroyed by those evil, Satan-worshipping Moslems. That's why the
U.S. has to attack Iran, in addition to Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia and
(maybe) Sudan. To kill as many of THEM as we can before they come for
your children (and your Tivo (TM)). The End is Near, join the Crusade!

--Jeff
--
The shepherd always tries to persuade
the sheep that their interests and
his own are the same. --Stendhal
Captain Compassion
2007-01-10 17:30:42 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 10:15:27 -0500, Jeffrey Turner
Post by Jeffrey Turner
Post by Captain Compassion
Right on!: Say Goodbye to Europe
Michael Freund, THE JERUSALEM POST Jan. 9, 2007
If you ever wanted to see Paris or Rome before you die, but haven't
had a chance to do so, you might want to hurry. Soon enough, most of
what we now think of as Western Europe will be transformed into a
branch of the Muslim world, which is sure to make it an even less
welcoming place for Americans, Israelis and for Jews.
Oh no! Run away! The whole white, {Judeo-)Christian world is about to
be destroyed by those evil, Satan-worshipping Moslems. That's why the
U.S. has to attack Iran, in addition to Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia and
(maybe) Sudan. To kill as many of THEM as we can before they come for
your children (and your Tivo (TM)). The End is Near, join the Crusade!
In 1970 1/3 of all humanity lived in first world democracies. Today
that figure is less than 20%

The world becomes poorer and less Democratic. You're ok with that?
--
Wherever I go it will be well with me, for it was well with me here, not
on account of the place, but of my judgments which I shall carry away
with me, for no one can deprive me of these; on the contrary, they alone
are my property, and cannot be taken away, and to possess them suffices
me wherever I am or whatever I do. -- EPICTETUS

"There are no absolute certainties in this universe. A man must try to
whip order into a yelping pack of probabilities, and uniform success is
impossible." -- Jack Vance

"Civilization is the interval between Ice Ages." -- Will Durant.


"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant

Joseph R. Darancette
***@NOSPAMverizon.net
Jeffrey Turner
2007-01-10 23:23:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Captain Compassion
On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 10:15:27 -0500, Jeffrey Turner
Post by Jeffrey Turner
Post by Captain Compassion
Right on!: Say Goodbye to Europe
Michael Freund, THE JERUSALEM POST Jan. 9, 2007
If you ever wanted to see Paris or Rome before you die, but haven't
had a chance to do so, you might want to hurry. Soon enough, most of
what we now think of as Western Europe will be transformed into a
branch of the Muslim world, which is sure to make it an even less
welcoming place for Americans, Israelis and for Jews.
Oh no! Run away! The whole white, {Judeo-)Christian world is about to
be destroyed by those evil, Satan-worshipping Moslems. That's why the
U.S. has to attack Iran, in addition to Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia and
(maybe) Sudan. To kill as many of THEM as we can before they come for
your children (and your Tivo (TM)). The End is Near, join the Crusade!
In 1970 1/3 of all humanity lived in first world democracies. Today
that figure is less than 20%
The world becomes poorer and less Democratic. You're ok with that?
The world is becoming more democratic, despite the efforts of the U.S.
and the corporations. All your old favorite Central and South American
dictatorships are gone. The people there have and continue to become
wealthier as a result. Meanwhile, most Americans are becoming poorer
under the Bush regime.

--Jeff
--
The shepherd always tries to persuade
the sheep that their interests and
his own are the same. --Stendhal
Captain Compassion
2007-01-11 02:43:56 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 18:23:45 -0500, Jeffrey Turner
Post by Jeffrey Turner
Post by Captain Compassion
On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 10:15:27 -0500, Jeffrey Turner
Post by Jeffrey Turner
Post by Captain Compassion
Right on!: Say Goodbye to Europe
Michael Freund, THE JERUSALEM POST Jan. 9, 2007
If you ever wanted to see Paris or Rome before you die, but haven't
had a chance to do so, you might want to hurry. Soon enough, most of
what we now think of as Western Europe will be transformed into a
branch of the Muslim world, which is sure to make it an even less
welcoming place for Americans, Israelis and for Jews.
Oh no! Run away! The whole white, {Judeo-)Christian world is about to
be destroyed by those evil, Satan-worshipping Moslems. That's why the
U.S. has to attack Iran, in addition to Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia and
(maybe) Sudan. To kill as many of THEM as we can before they come for
your children (and your Tivo (TM)). The End is Near, join the Crusade!
In 1970 1/3 of all humanity lived in first world democracies. Today
that figure is less than 20%
The world becomes poorer and less Democratic. You're ok with that?
The world is becoming more democratic, despite the efforts of the U.S.
and the corporations. All your old favorite Central and South American
dictatorships are gone. The people there have and continue to become
wealthier as a result. Meanwhile, most Americans are becoming poorer
under the Bush regime.
Venezuela, Cuba and Bolivia are Democracies?
--
Wherever I go it will be well with me, for it was well with me here, not
on account of the place, but of my judgments which I shall carry away
with me, for no one can deprive me of these; on the contrary, they alone
are my property, and cannot be taken away, and to possess them suffices
me wherever I am or whatever I do. -- EPICTETUS

"There are no absolute certainties in this universe. A man must try to
whip order into a yelping pack of probabilities, and uniform success is
impossible." -- Jack Vance

"Civilization is the interval between Ice Ages." -- Will Durant.


"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant

Joseph R. Darancette
***@NOSPAMverizon.net
Jeffrey Turner
2007-01-11 21:08:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Captain Compassion
On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 18:23:45 -0500, Jeffrey Turner
Post by Jeffrey Turner
Post by Captain Compassion
On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 10:15:27 -0500, Jeffrey Turner
Post by Jeffrey Turner
Post by Captain Compassion
Right on!: Say Goodbye to Europe
Michael Freund, THE JERUSALEM POST Jan. 9, 2007
If you ever wanted to see Paris or Rome before you die, but haven't
had a chance to do so, you might want to hurry. Soon enough, most of
what we now think of as Western Europe will be transformed into a
branch of the Muslim world, which is sure to make it an even less
welcoming place for Americans, Israelis and for Jews.
Oh no! Run away! The whole white, {Judeo-)Christian world is about to
be destroyed by those evil, Satan-worshipping Moslems. That's why the
U.S. has to attack Iran, in addition to Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia and
(maybe) Sudan. To kill as many of THEM as we can before they come for
your children (and your Tivo (TM)). The End is Near, join the Crusade!
In 1970 1/3 of all humanity lived in first world democracies. Today
that figure is less than 20%
The world becomes poorer and less Democratic. You're ok with that?
The world is becoming more democratic, despite the efforts of the U.S.
and the corporations. All your old favorite Central and South American
dictatorships are gone. The people there have and continue to become
wealthier as a result. Meanwhile, most Americans are becoming poorer
under the Bush regime.
Venezuela, Cuba and Bolivia are Democracies?
Venezuela and Bolivia are, yes. They elected people you don't like, too
bad.

--Jeff
--
The shepherd always tries to persuade
the sheep that their interests and
his own are the same. --Stendhal
Captain Compassion
2007-01-11 21:45:57 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 11 Jan 2007 16:08:13 -0500, Jeffrey Turner
Post by Jeffrey Turner
Post by Captain Compassion
On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 18:23:45 -0500, Jeffrey Turner
Post by Jeffrey Turner
Post by Captain Compassion
On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 10:15:27 -0500, Jeffrey Turner
Post by Jeffrey Turner
Post by Captain Compassion
Right on!: Say Goodbye to Europe
Michael Freund, THE JERUSALEM POST Jan. 9, 2007
If you ever wanted to see Paris or Rome before you die, but haven't
had a chance to do so, you might want to hurry. Soon enough, most of
what we now think of as Western Europe will be transformed into a
branch of the Muslim world, which is sure to make it an even less
welcoming place for Americans, Israelis and for Jews.
Oh no! Run away! The whole white, {Judeo-)Christian world is about to
be destroyed by those evil, Satan-worshipping Moslems. That's why the
U.S. has to attack Iran, in addition to Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia and
(maybe) Sudan. To kill as many of THEM as we can before they come for
your children (and your Tivo (TM)). The End is Near, join the Crusade!
In 1970 1/3 of all humanity lived in first world democracies. Today
that figure is less than 20%
The world becomes poorer and less Democratic. You're ok with that?
The world is becoming more democratic, despite the efforts of the U.S.
and the corporations. All your old favorite Central and South American
dictatorships are gone. The people there have and continue to become
wealthier as a result. Meanwhile, most Americans are becoming poorer
under the Bush regime.
Venezuela, Cuba and Bolivia are Democracies?
Venezuela and Bolivia are, yes. They elected people you don't like, too
bad.
We'll see. Is it possible for a people living in a democracy to be
unfree?
--
Wherever I go it will be well with me, for it was well with me here, not
on account of the place, but of my judgments which I shall carry away
with me, for no one can deprive me of these; on the contrary, they alone
are my property, and cannot be taken away, and to possess them suffices
me wherever I am or whatever I do. -- EPICTETUS

"There are no absolute certainties in this universe. A man must try to
whip order into a yelping pack of probabilities, and uniform success is
impossible." -- Jack Vance

"Civilization is the interval between Ice Ages." -- Will Durant.


"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant

Joseph R. Darancette
***@NOSPAMverizon.net
Erik A. Mattila
2007-01-12 01:00:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Captain Compassion
On Thu, 11 Jan 2007 16:08:13 -0500, Jeffrey Turner
Post by Jeffrey Turner
Post by Captain Compassion
On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 18:23:45 -0500, Jeffrey Turner
Post by Jeffrey Turner
Post by Captain Compassion
On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 10:15:27 -0500, Jeffrey Turner
Post by Jeffrey Turner
Post by Captain Compassion
Right on!: Say Goodbye to Europe
Michael Freund, THE JERUSALEM POST Jan. 9, 2007
If you ever wanted to see Paris or Rome before you die, but haven't
had a chance to do so, you might want to hurry. Soon enough, most of
what we now think of as Western Europe will be transformed into a
branch of the Muslim world, which is sure to make it an even less
welcoming place for Americans, Israelis and for Jews.
Oh no! Run away! The whole white, {Judeo-)Christian world is about to
be destroyed by those evil, Satan-worshipping Moslems. That's why the
U.S. has to attack Iran, in addition to Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia and
(maybe) Sudan. To kill as many of THEM as we can before they come for
your children (and your Tivo (TM)). The End is Near, join the Crusade!
In 1970 1/3 of all humanity lived in first world democracies. Today
that figure is less than 20%
The world becomes poorer and less Democratic. You're ok with that?
The world is becoming more democratic, despite the efforts of the U.S.
and the corporations. All your old favorite Central and South American
dictatorships are gone. The people there have and continue to become
wealthier as a result. Meanwhile, most Americans are becoming poorer
under the Bush regime.
Venezuela, Cuba and Bolivia are Democracies?
Venezuela and Bolivia are, yes. They elected people you don't like, too
bad.
We'll see. Is it possible for a people living in a democracy to be
unfree?
Yup. Don't pay your taxes and discover the benefits of unfreedom.
Aaron
2007-01-22 17:30:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Captain Compassion
Post by Jeffrey Turner
Venezuela and Bolivia are, yes. They elected people you don't like, too
bad.
We'll see. Is it possible for a people living in a democracy to be
unfree?
Uhh, yeah. Cite: America.

Cite: my phone calls to dear granny. They shouldn't be monitored. She's
not a terrorist.[1]

-Aaron

[1] No, she's a Republican, so even by YOUR stupid definition, she's
not a terrorist.
Captain Compassion
2007-01-22 21:30:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Aaron
Post by Captain Compassion
Post by Jeffrey Turner
Venezuela and Bolivia are, yes. They elected people you don't like, too
bad.
We'll see. Is it possible for a people living in a democracy to be
unfree?
Uhh, yeah. Cite: America.
Cite: my phone calls to dear granny. They shouldn't be monitored. She's
not a terrorist.[1]
And we know this how?
Post by Aaron
-Aaron
[1] No, she's a Republican, so even by YOUR stupid definition, she's
not a terrorist.
--
Wherever I go it will be well with me, for it was well with me here, not
on account of the place, but of my judgments which I shall carry away
with me, for no one can deprive me of these; on the contrary, they alone
are my property, and cannot be taken away, and to possess them suffices
me wherever I am or whatever I do. -- EPICTETUS

"There are no absolute certainties in this universe. A man must try to
whip order into a yelping pack of probabilities, and uniform success is
impossible." -- Jack Vance

"Civilization is the interval between Ice Ages." -- Will Durant.


"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant

Joseph R. Darancette
***@NOSPAMverizon.net
Jeffrey Turner
2007-01-23 04:34:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Captain Compassion
Post by Aaron
Post by Captain Compassion
Post by Jeffrey Turner
Venezuela and Bolivia are, yes. They elected people you don't like, too
bad.
We'll see. Is it possible for a people living in a democracy to be
unfree?
Uhh, yeah. Cite: America.
Cite: my phone calls to dear granny. They shouldn't be monitored. She's
not a terrorist.[1]
And we know this how?
Trouble with footnotes, Captain?
Post by Captain Compassion
Post by Aaron
-Aaron
[1] No, she's a Republican, so even by YOUR stupid definition, she's
not a terrorist.
--Jeff
--
I believe I found the missing link between animal
and civilized man. It is us. -Konrad Lorenz
Captain Compassion
2007-01-23 05:39:14 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 23:34:16 -0500, Jeffrey Turner
Post by Jeffrey Turner
Post by Captain Compassion
Post by Aaron
Post by Captain Compassion
Post by Jeffrey Turner
Venezuela and Bolivia are, yes. They elected people you don't like, too
bad.
We'll see. Is it possible for a people living in a democracy to be
unfree?
Uhh, yeah. Cite: America.
Cite: my phone calls to dear granny. They shouldn't be monitored. She's
not a terrorist.[1]
And we know this how?
Trouble with footnotes, Captain?
I saw the footnote. Perhaps Granny's Republicanism is merely deep
cover.
Post by Jeffrey Turner
Post by Captain Compassion
Post by Aaron
-Aaron
[1] No, she's a Republican, so even by YOUR stupid definition, she's
not a terrorist.
--Jeff
--
Wherever I go it will be well with me, for it was well with me here, not
on account of the place, but of my judgments which I shall carry away
with me, for no one can deprive me of these; on the contrary, they alone
are my property, and cannot be taken away, and to possess them suffices
me wherever I am or whatever I do. -- EPICTETUS

"There are no absolute certainties in this universe. A man must try to
whip order into a yelping pack of probabilities, and uniform success is
impossible." -- Jack Vance

"Civilization is the interval between Ice Ages." -- Will Durant.


"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant

Joseph R. Darancette
***@NOSPAMverizon.net
g***@comcast.net
2007-01-11 08:16:07 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 09:30:42 -0800, Captain Compassion
Post by Captain Compassion
In 1970 1/3 of all humanity lived in first world democracies. Today
that figure is less than 20%
Got a link on that?

Swill
--
In the 1960s a President from Texas fought an unwinnable war
that cost thousands of lives and billions of dollars.

In the 2000s a President from Texas fought an unwinnable war
that cost thousands of lives and billions of dollars.

The moral of the story is, No New Texans
Captain Compassion
2007-01-11 18:12:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@comcast.net
On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 09:30:42 -0800, Captain Compassion
Post by Captain Compassion
In 1970 1/3 of all humanity lived in first world democracies. Today
that figure is less than 20%
Got a link on that?
World book for one.

Here's what the future looks like

2010
First World

US+Canada 348 million
EU 460 Million
Japan 130 Million
Other first 40 Million
===========
Total 978 Million

World population 2010

6.83 Billion

% of population in first world 2010 14.3%
--
Wherever I go it will be well with me, for it was well with me here, not
on account of the place, but of my judgments which I shall carry away
with me, for no one can deprive me of these; on the contrary, they alone
are my property, and cannot be taken away, and to possess them suffices
me wherever I am or whatever I do. -- EPICTETUS

"There are no absolute certainties in this universe. A man must try to
whip order into a yelping pack of probabilities, and uniform success is
impossible." -- Jack Vance

"Civilization is the interval between Ice Ages." -- Will Durant.


"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant

Joseph R. Darancette
***@NOSPAMverizon.net
Jeffrey Turner
2007-01-11 21:15:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Captain Compassion
Post by g***@comcast.net
On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 09:30:42 -0800, Captain Compassion
Post by Captain Compassion
In 1970 1/3 of all humanity lived in first world democracies. Today
that figure is less than 20%
Got a link on that?
World book for one.
Here's what the future looks like
2010
First World
US+Canada 348 million
EU 460 Million
Japan 130 Million
Other first 40 Million
===========
Total 978 Million
World population 2010
6.83 Billion
% of population in first world 2010 14.3%
You think they're gonna come and take back the stuff your forebears
stole fair and square? Maybe they'll get wealthy on their own - if
they can avoid "free trade" and the IMF/World Bank.

--Jeff
--
The shepherd always tries to persuade
the sheep that their interests and
his own are the same. --Stendhal
Captain Compassion
2007-01-11 21:53:09 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 11 Jan 2007 16:15:47 -0500, Jeffrey Turner
Post by Jeffrey Turner
Post by Captain Compassion
Post by g***@comcast.net
On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 09:30:42 -0800, Captain Compassion
Post by Captain Compassion
In 1970 1/3 of all humanity lived in first world democracies. Today
that figure is less than 20%
Got a link on that?
World book for one.
Here's what the future looks like
2010
First World
US+Canada 348 million
EU 460 Million
Japan 130 Million
Other first 40 Million
===========
Total 978 Million
World population 2010
6.83 Billion
% of population in first world 2010 14.3%
You think they're gonna come and take back the stuff your forebears
stole fair and square? Maybe they'll get wealthy on their own - if
they can avoid "free trade" and the IMF/World Bank.
Not likely. Western free trade liberal democracies are the only hope
for the world.
--
Wherever I go it will be well with me, for it was well with me here, not
on account of the place, but of my judgments which I shall carry away
with me, for no one can deprive me of these; on the contrary, they alone
are my property, and cannot be taken away, and to possess them suffices
me wherever I am or whatever I do. -- EPICTETUS

"There are no absolute certainties in this universe. A man must try to
whip order into a yelping pack of probabilities, and uniform success is
impossible." -- Jack Vance

"Civilization is the interval between Ice Ages." -- Will Durant.


"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant

Joseph R. Darancette
***@NOSPAMverizon.net
Jeffrey Turner
2007-01-12 20:30:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Captain Compassion
On Thu, 11 Jan 2007 16:15:47 -0500, Jeffrey Turner
Post by Jeffrey Turner
Post by Captain Compassion
Post by g***@comcast.net
On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 09:30:42 -0800, Captain Compassion
Post by Captain Compassion
In 1970 1/3 of all humanity lived in first world democracies. Today
that figure is less than 20%
Got a link on that?
World book for one.
Here's what the future looks like
2010
First World
US+Canada 348 million
EU 460 Million
Japan 130 Million
Other first 40 Million
===========
Total 978 Million
World population 2010
6.83 Billion
% of population in first world 2010 14.3%
You think they're gonna come and take back the stuff your forebears
stole fair and square? Maybe they'll get wealthy on their own - if
they can avoid "free trade" and the IMF/World Bank.
Not likely. Western free trade liberal democracies are the only hope
for the world.
Median family income has gone down every year Bush has been in office.
The U.S. is wealthy and can afford that, not that we should. But the
developing world isn't starting from a position where they can afford
that nonsense.

--Jeff
--
The shepherd always tries to persuade
the sheep that their interests and
his own are the same. --Stendhal
g***@comcast.net
2007-01-12 08:18:51 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 11 Jan 2007 16:15:47 -0500, Jeffrey Turner
Post by Jeffrey Turner
Post by Captain Compassion
Here's what the future looks like
2010
First World
US+Canada 348 million
EU 460 Million
Japan 130 Million
Other first 40 Million
===========
Total 978 Million
World population 2010
6.83 Billion
% of population in first world 2010 14.3%
You think they're gonna come and take back the stuff your forebears
stole fair and square? Maybe they'll get wealthy on their own - if
they can avoid "free trade" and the IMF/World Bank.
Take back?

Swill
--
"Where mistakes have been made,
the responsibility rests with me."
George Bush - 1/10/2006
Jeffrey Turner
2007-01-12 20:32:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Captain Compassion
On Thu, 11 Jan 2007 16:15:47 -0500, Jeffrey Turner
Post by Jeffrey Turner
Post by Captain Compassion
Here's what the future looks like
2010
First World
US+Canada 348 million
EU 460 Million
Japan 130 Million
Other first 40 Million
===========
Total 978 Million
World population 2010
6.83 Billion
% of population in first world 2010 14.3%
You think they're gonna come and take back the stuff your forebears
stole fair and square? Maybe they'll get wealthy on their own - if
they can avoid "free trade" and the IMF/World Bank.
Take back?
Yeah. What did you think the point of colonialism and banana
republics was?

--Jeff
--
The shepherd always tries to persuade
the sheep that their interests and
his own are the same. --Stendhal
l***@cs.com
2007-01-11 21:22:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeffrey Turner
Post by Captain Compassion
Right on!: Say Goodbye to Europe
Michael Freund, THE JERUSALEM POST Jan. 9, 2007
If you ever wanted to see Paris or Rome before you die, but haven't
had a chance to do so, you might want to hurry. Soon enough, most of
what we now think of as Western Europe will be transformed into a
branch of the Muslim world, which is sure to make it an even less
welcoming place for Americans, Israelis and for Jews.
Oh no! Run away! The whole white, {Judeo-)Christian world is about to
be destroyed by those evil, Satan-worshipping Moslems. That's why the
U.S. has to attack Iran, in addition to Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia and
(maybe) Sudan. To kill as many of THEM as we can before they come for
your children (and your Tivo (TM)). The End is Near, join the Crusade!
--Jeff
Moslems don't like foreign Christians living in their lands. Fact.

Why should Christians like having Moslems living in their own lands?
Captain Compassion
2007-01-11 21:57:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@cs.com
Post by Jeffrey Turner
Post by Captain Compassion
Right on!: Say Goodbye to Europe
Michael Freund, THE JERUSALEM POST Jan. 9, 2007
If you ever wanted to see Paris or Rome before you die, but haven't
had a chance to do so, you might want to hurry. Soon enough, most of
what we now think of as Western Europe will be transformed into a
branch of the Muslim world, which is sure to make it an even less
welcoming place for Americans, Israelis and for Jews.
Oh no! Run away! The whole white, {Judeo-)Christian world is about to
be destroyed by those evil, Satan-worshipping Moslems. That's why the
U.S. has to attack Iran, in addition to Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia and
(maybe) Sudan. To kill as many of THEM as we can before they come for
your children (and your Tivo (TM)). The End is Near, join the Crusade!
--Jeff
Moslems don't like foreign Christians living in their lands. Fact.
Why should Christians like having Moslems living in their own lands?
The largest Arab country is Egypt with a population of 79 million. It
is also Israels largest neighbor. There are around 100 Jews living in
Egypt. There are even less Jews in Saudi Arabia.
--
Wherever I go it will be well with me, for it was well with me here, not
on account of the place, but of my judgments which I shall carry away
with me, for no one can deprive me of these; on the contrary, they alone
are my property, and cannot be taken away, and to possess them suffices
me wherever I am or whatever I do. -- EPICTETUS

"There are no absolute certainties in this universe. A man must try to
whip order into a yelping pack of probabilities, and uniform success is
impossible." -- Jack Vance

"Civilization is the interval between Ice Ages." -- Will Durant.


"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant

Joseph R. Darancette
***@NOSPAMverizon.net
Jeffrey Turner
2007-01-12 20:48:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Captain Compassion
Post by l***@cs.com
Post by Jeffrey Turner
Post by Captain Compassion
Right on!: Say Goodbye to Europe
Michael Freund, THE JERUSALEM POST Jan. 9, 2007
If you ever wanted to see Paris or Rome before you die, but haven't
had a chance to do so, you might want to hurry. Soon enough, most of
what we now think of as Western Europe will be transformed into a
branch of the Muslim world, which is sure to make it an even less
welcoming place for Americans, Israelis and for Jews.
Oh no! Run away! The whole white, {Judeo-)Christian world is about to
be destroyed by those evil, Satan-worshipping Moslems. That's why the
U.S. has to attack Iran, in addition to Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia and
(maybe) Sudan. To kill as many of THEM as we can before they come for
your children (and your Tivo (TM)). The End is Near, join the Crusade!
--Jeff
Moslems don't like foreign Christians living in their lands. Fact.
Nope, nonsense. Look up the Coptic Christians, for one.
Post by Captain Compassion
Post by l***@cs.com
Why should Christians like having Moslems living in their own lands?
Why shouldn't rednecks join the 21st century?
Post by Captain Compassion
The largest Arab country is Egypt with a population of 79 million. It
is also Israels largest neighbor. There are around 100 Jews living in
Egypt. There are even less Jews in Saudi Arabia.
Lorad would prolly feel right at home.

--Jeff
--
The shepherd always tries to persuade
the sheep that their interests and
his own are the same. --Stendhal
Hugh Gibbons
2007-01-14 08:30:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeffrey Turner
Post by l***@cs.com
Post by Jeffrey Turner
Post by Captain Compassion
Right on!: Say Goodbye to Europe
Michael Freund, THE JERUSALEM POST Jan. 9, 2007
If you ever wanted to see Paris or Rome before you die, but haven't
had a chance to do so, you might want to hurry. Soon enough, most of
what we now think of as Western Europe will be transformed into a
branch of the Muslim world, which is sure to make it an even less
welcoming place for Americans, Israelis and for Jews.
Oh no! Run away! The whole white, {Judeo-)Christian world is about to
be destroyed by those evil, Satan-worshipping Moslems. That's why the
U.S. has to attack Iran, in addition to Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia and
(maybe) Sudan. To kill as many of THEM as we can before they come for
your children (and your Tivo (TM)). The End is Near, join the Crusade!
--Jeff
Moslems don't like foreign Christians living in their lands. Fact.
Nope, nonsense. Look up the Coptic Christians, for one.
You mean these folks?

http://www.aina.org/news/20061224012530.htm
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/world/4425750.html
http://www.aina.org/news/20061224202027.htm
--
_______________________________________________

National Debt at % GDP

Loading Image...
Jeffrey Turner
2007-01-17 00:20:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hugh Gibbons
Post by Jeffrey Turner
Post by l***@cs.com
Post by Jeffrey Turner
Post by Captain Compassion
Right on!: Say Goodbye to Europe
Michael Freund, THE JERUSALEM POST Jan. 9, 2007
If you ever wanted to see Paris or Rome before you die, but haven't
had a chance to do so, you might want to hurry. Soon enough, most of
what we now think of as Western Europe will be transformed into a
branch of the Muslim world, which is sure to make it an even less
welcoming place for Americans, Israelis and for Jews.
Oh no! Run away! The whole white, {Judeo-)Christian world is about to
be destroyed by those evil, Satan-worshipping Moslems. That's why the
U.S. has to attack Iran, in addition to Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia and
(maybe) Sudan. To kill as many of THEM as we can before they come for
your children (and your Tivo (TM)). The End is Near, join the Crusade!
--Jeff
Moslems don't like foreign Christians living in their lands. Fact.
Nope, nonsense. Look up the Coptic Christians, for one.
You mean these folks?
http://www.aina.org/news/20061224012530.htm
"only Lebanon allows Muslims to convert to Christianity"

My oh my.
Post by Hugh Gibbons
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/world/4425750.html
"There is a powerful fundamentalist element that is small but quite
militant. I regard them as a minority, but they are making life
unpleasant for the Copts."

Obviously there are a minority of fundamentalists who feel that way,
yes. Mubarak doesn't like the fundamentalists either.
Post by Hugh Gibbons
http://www.aina.org/news/20061224202027.htm
That comes the closest to making the point.

--Jeff
--
The shepherd always tries to persuade
the sheep that their interests and
his own are the same. --Stendhal
BTM
2007-01-19 21:18:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeffrey Turner
Post by l***@cs.com
Why should Christians like having Moslems living in their own lands?
Why shouldn't rednecks join the 21st century?
Like most Muslims have?
Jeffrey Turner
2007-01-19 23:28:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by BTM
Post by Jeffrey Turner
Post by l***@cs.com
Why should Christians like having Moslems living in their own lands?
Why shouldn't rednecks join the 21st century?
Like most Muslims have?
Most Muslims have. But there are Muslim rednecks too.

--Jeff
--
The shepherd always tries to persuade
the sheep that their interests and
his own are the same. --Stendhal
Bill Bonde
2007-01-20 20:23:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeffrey Turner
Post by BTM
Post by Jeffrey Turner
Post by l***@cs.com
Why should Christians like having Moslems living in their own lands?
Why shouldn't rednecks join the 21st century?
Like most Muslims have?
Most Muslims have. But there are Muslim rednecks too.
Does it matter if the majority language in Europe becomes Arabic?
--
"The ultimate test is always your own serenity." Robert M Pirsig, "Zen
and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance"
Jeffrey Turner
2007-01-22 17:20:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Bonde
Post by Jeffrey Turner
Post by BTM
Post by Jeffrey Turner
Post by l***@cs.com
Why should Christians like having Moslems living in their own lands?
Why shouldn't rednecks join the 21st century?
Like most Muslims have?
Most Muslims have. But there are Muslim rednecks too.
Does it matter if the majority language in Europe becomes Arabic?
Doesn't it matter what they're saying, not how? When Ben Franklin was
young he worried that the Germans were going to destroy the English
culture of Pennsylvania.

--Jeff
--
I believe I found the missing link between animal
and civilized man. It is us. -Konrad Lorenz
Bill Bonde
2007-01-22 21:54:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeffrey Turner
Post by Bill Bonde
Post by Jeffrey Turner
Post by BTM
Post by Jeffrey Turner
Post by l***@cs.com
Why should Christians like having Moslems living in their own lands?
Why shouldn't rednecks join the 21st century?
Like most Muslims have?
Most Muslims have. But there are Muslim rednecks too.
Does it matter if the majority language in Europe becomes Arabic?
Doesn't it matter what they're saying, not how?
Would it matter if the majority langauge in the Middle East was English?
Post by Jeffrey Turner
When Ben Franklin was
young he worried that the Germans were going to destroy the English
culture of Pennsylvania.
And he was right.
--
"The ultimate test is always your own serenity." Robert M Pirsig, "Zen
and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance"
Jeffrey Turner
2007-01-23 04:32:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Bonde
Post by Jeffrey Turner
Post by Bill Bonde
Post by Jeffrey Turner
Post by BTM
Post by Jeffrey Turner
Post by l***@cs.com
Why should Christians like having Moslems living in their own lands?
Why shouldn't rednecks join the 21st century?
Like most Muslims have?
Most Muslims have. But there are Muslim rednecks too.
Does it matter if the majority language in Europe becomes Arabic?
Doesn't it matter what they're saying, not how?
Would it matter if the majority langauge in the Middle East was English?
I doubt it would make any major difference. It might help straighten
out some misunderstandings with us, but that's irrelevant to whether
Germans speak German or Arabic.
Post by Bill Bonde
Post by Jeffrey Turner
When Ben Franklin was
young he worried that the Germans were going to destroy the English
culture of Pennsylvania.
And he was right.
It's a crying shame what's become of Pennsylvania to this day. I
think they mostly speak English, though.

--Jeff
--
I believe I found the missing link between animal
and civilized man. It is us. -Konrad Lorenz
unknown
2007-01-23 13:06:14 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 23:32:44 -0500, Jeffrey Turner <***@localnet.com> wrote:
[...]
Post by Jeffrey Turner
It's a crying shame what's become of Pennsylvania to this day. I
think they mostly speak English, though.
--Jeff
Except for Pittsburghese. Good thing there's a translator:

http://pittsburghese.com/translator.shtml
g***@comcast.net
2007-01-23 05:42:24 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 13:54:41 -0800, Bill Bonde
Post by Bill Bonde
Would it matter if the majority langauge in the Middle East was English?
It's worked for the British Commonwealth and the United States.

Swill
--
"Where mistakes have been made,
the responsibility rests with me."
George Bush - 1/10/2006
Bill Bonde
2007-01-23 22:08:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@comcast.net
On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 13:54:41 -0800, Bill Bonde
Post by Bill Bonde
Would it matter if the majority langauge in the Middle East was English?
It's worked for the British Commonwealth and the United States.
So one world language would be preferable, the linguistic history of
mankind being currently irrelevant?
--
"The ultimate test is always your own serenity." Robert M Pirsig, "Zen
and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance"
g***@comcast.net
2007-01-24 02:00:44 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 14:08:34 -0800, Bill Bonde
Post by Bill Bonde
Post by g***@comcast.net
On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 13:54:41 -0800, Bill Bonde
Post by Bill Bonde
Would it matter if the majority langauge in the Middle East was English?
It's worked for the British Commonwealth and the United States.
So one world language would be preferable, the linguistic history of
mankind being currently irrelevant?
Look deeper.

Swill
--
"Where mistakes have been made,
the responsibility rests with me."
George Bush - 1/10/2006
Bill Bonde
2007-01-24 03:27:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@comcast.net
On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 14:08:34 -0800, Bill Bonde
Post by Bill Bonde
Post by g***@comcast.net
On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 13:54:41 -0800, Bill Bonde
Post by Bill Bonde
Would it matter if the majority langauge in the Middle East was English?
It's worked for the British Commonwealth and the United States.
So one world language would be preferable, the linguistic history of
mankind being currently irrelevant?
Look deeper.
Is that an answer to my question?
--
"The ultimate test is always your own serenity." Robert M Pirsig, "Zen
and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance"
g***@comcast.net
2007-01-24 17:22:27 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 19:27:57 -0800, Bill Bonde
Post by Bill Bonde
Post by g***@comcast.net
Post by Bill Bonde
Post by g***@comcast.net
Post by Bill Bonde
Would it matter if the majority langauge in the Middle East was English?
It's worked for the British Commonwealth and the United States.
So one world language would be preferable, the linguistic history of
mankind being currently irrelevant?
Look deeper.
Is that an answer to my question?
I don't know.

Swill
--
"Where mistakes have been made,
the responsibility rests with me."
George Bush - 1/10/2006
Bill Bonde
2007-01-24 17:31:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@comcast.net
On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 19:27:57 -0800, Bill Bonde
Post by Bill Bonde
Post by g***@comcast.net
Post by Bill Bonde
Post by g***@comcast.net
Post by Bill Bonde
Would it matter if the majority langauge in the Middle East was English?
It's worked for the British Commonwealth and the United States.
So one world language would be preferable, the linguistic history of
mankind being currently irrelevant?
Look deeper.
Is that an answer to my question?
I don't know.
I figured as much.
--
"The ultimate test is always your own serenity." Robert M Pirsig, "Zen
and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance"
Parsifal
2007-01-12 21:50:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@cs.com
Post by Jeffrey Turner
Post by Captain Compassion
Right on!: Say Goodbye to Europe
Michael Freund, THE JERUSALEM POST Jan. 9, 2007
If you ever wanted to see Paris or Rome before you die, but haven't
had a chance to do so, you might want to hurry. Soon enough, most of
what we now think of as Western Europe will be transformed into a
branch of the Muslim world, which is sure to make it an even less
welcoming place for Americans, Israelis and for Jews.
Oh no! Run away! The whole white, {Judeo-)Christian world is about to
be destroyed by those evil, Satan-worshipping Moslems. That's why the
U.S. has to attack Iran, in addition to Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia and
(maybe) Sudan. To kill as many of THEM as we can before they come for
your children (and your Tivo (TM)). The End is Near, join the Crusade!
--Jeff
Moslems don't like foreign Christians living in their lands. Fact.
How many Muslims do you know? Ever been to an islamic country?
Post by l***@cs.com
Why should Christians like having Moslems living in their own lands?
How about not invading or ruining their countries?
l***@yahoo.com
2007-01-13 02:34:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Captain Compassion
Right on!: Say Goodbye to Europe
Michael Freund, THE JERUSALEM POST Jan. 9, 2007
If you ever wanted to see Paris or Rome before you die, but haven't
had a chance to do so, you might want to hurry. Soon enough, most of
what we now think of as Western Europe will be transformed into a
branch of the Muslim world, which is sure to make it an even less
welcoming place for Americans, Israelis and for Jews.
Lower birth rates are well advised. Global warming will cut arable
farmland. And lifespans are predicted to increase substantially.
Post by Captain Compassion
That, at least, is the unpleasant, yet entirely unavoidable conclusion
to be drawn from Europe's headlong demographic drive toward oblivion.
Think I'm exaggerating? Consider a few cold hard facts.
According to a recent report by the Rand Corporation, "Across Europe,
birth rates are falling and family sizes are shrinking. The total
fertility rate is now less than two children per woman in every member
nation in the European Union."
Needless to say, demographers consider a birthrate of 2.1 children per
family to be the replacement level at which a society's population
size remains stable. Barring large-scale immigration, anything less
means decline and dissolution.
A research study published last year in the International Journal of
Andrology found a similar trend, concluding that, "Fertility rates
have fallen and are now below replacement level in all European Union
(EU) Member States. In the 20-year period since 1982," it noted, "most
EU Member State countries have had total fertility rates continuously
below replacement level."
At the bottom of the list are Spain, Italy and Greece, where
birthrates hover around just 1.3 per couple, leading some forecasters
to suggest, for example, that Italy's population could shrink by
one-third by the middle of the century.
Others, such as Germany's 1.37, the UK's 1.74 and Sweden's 1.75,
aren't all much better.
The figures are so bad that in many European countries, the total
number of deaths each year has actually begun to exceed the number of
births.
Indeed, the Council of Europe's 2004 Demographic Yearbook warned that,
"for Europe as a whole, more people died in 2003 than were born." In
1990, said the yearbook, "three countries - Germany, Bulgaria and
Hungary - had negative natural growth for the first time. By 2002, it
was negative in fifteen countries."
LAST YEAR, after the publication of statistics revealing that 30
percent of German women have not had children, Germany's family
minister, Ursula von der Leyen, caused a stir when she said that if
her nation's birth rate did not turn around, the country would have to
"turn out the light." And while Europeans may be busy everywhere but
in the bedroom, the Muslim populations in their midst are proving far
more expansive.
As columnist Mark Steyn points out in his must-read new book, America
Alone, "What's the Muslim population of Rotterdam? Forty percent.
What's the most popular baby boy's name in Belgium? Mohammed. In
Amsterdam? Mohammed. In Malmo, Sweden? Mohammed."
Last month, the UK Daily Telegraph reported that, "Mohammed, and its
most common alternative spelling Muhammad, are now more popular
babies' names in England and Wales than George."
This, said the paper, using typically British understatement,
"reflects the diverse ethnic mix of the population."
But that "mix," so to speak, is rapidly changing - and not in
traditional Europe's favor.
ISLAM, BY all accounts, is the fastest growing religion in Europe,
spurred by immigration and high fertility rates. According to
projections by the US federal government's National Intelligence
Council, the continent's current Muslim population of 20 million will
likely double by 2025.
And as Bruce Bawer noted last year in While Europe Slept, "Already, in
most of Western Europe, 16 to 20 percent of children are
Muslims...within a couple of generations many [European] countries will
have Muslim majorities."
Not since September 8, 1683, when the Ottomans were threatening to
breach the walls of Vienna, has Islam been so perilously close to
seizing control over Western Europe.
The implications of all this are far graver than we can even begin to
imagine, and it is not just a matter of choosing new and more
hospitable tourist destinations.
An increasingly Islamified Europe will prove ever more hostile to
Israel and America, and this trend will only intensify as the Muslim
population there continues to grow.
Even if European governments succeed in reversing the curve, which
seems highly unlikely, it will be decades before it would begin to be
felt. In the meantime, however, Muslim political power on the
continent will develop and expand, and European leaders will be
hard-pressed to ignore their demands.
This makes it far less likely that Israel and the US can count on
Europe - if they ever really could - at times of crisis in the decades
ahead. Just pick an issue, from the war on terror to Palestinian
statehood, and you'll see what I mean.
For however unbalanced Europe's stance has been until now, it will
likely only grow worse in the years to come.
Europe as we know it is a thing of the past, and it is time for
Israeli and American decision-makers to take this into account as they
plan for the future. The face of Europe is changing rapidly, and with
it the continent's social and political make-up.
So if you really want to see the Eiffel Tower up close, you had best
not delay. Before you know it, it might just turn into a minaret.
--
Wherever I go it will be well with me, for it was well with me here, not
on account of the place, but of my judgments which I shall carry away
with me, for no one can deprive me of these; on the contrary, they alone
are my property, and cannot be taken away, and to possess them suffices
me wherever I am or whatever I do. -- EPICTETUS
"There are no absolute certainties in this universe. A man must try to
whip order into a yelping pack of probabilities, and uniform success is
impossible." -- Jack Vance
"Civilization is the interval between Ice Ages." -- Will Durant.
"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant
Joseph R. Darancette
Captain Compassion
2007-01-13 03:39:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@yahoo.com
Post by Captain Compassion
Right on!: Say Goodbye to Europe
Michael Freund, THE JERUSALEM POST Jan. 9, 2007
If you ever wanted to see Paris or Rome before you die, but haven't
had a chance to do so, you might want to hurry. Soon enough, most of
what we now think of as Western Europe will be transformed into a
branch of the Muslim world, which is sure to make it an even less
welcoming place for Americans, Israelis and for Jews.
Lower birth rates are well advised. Global warming will cut arable
farmland. And lifespans are predicted to increase substantially.
Well that's the trick now isn't it? Lower birth rates in Western
Europe doesn't necessarily mean that the populations of these
countries aren't growing. The Euros have merely outsourced their
reproduction to the Islamic third world.
Post by l***@yahoo.com
Post by Captain Compassion
That, at least, is the unpleasant, yet entirely unavoidable conclusion
to be drawn from Europe's headlong demographic drive toward oblivion.
Think I'm exaggerating? Consider a few cold hard facts.
According to a recent report by the Rand Corporation, "Across Europe,
birth rates are falling and family sizes are shrinking. The total
fertility rate is now less than two children per woman in every member
nation in the European Union."
Needless to say, demographers consider a birthrate of 2.1 children per
family to be the replacement level at which a society's population
size remains stable. Barring large-scale immigration, anything less
means decline and dissolution.
A research study published last year in the International Journal of
Andrology found a similar trend, concluding that, "Fertility rates
have fallen and are now below replacement level in all European Union
(EU) Member States. In the 20-year period since 1982," it noted, "most
EU Member State countries have had total fertility rates continuously
below replacement level."
At the bottom of the list are Spain, Italy and Greece, where
birthrates hover around just 1.3 per couple, leading some forecasters
to suggest, for example, that Italy's population could shrink by
one-third by the middle of the century.
Others, such as Germany's 1.37, the UK's 1.74 and Sweden's 1.75,
aren't all much better.
The figures are so bad that in many European countries, the total
number of deaths each year has actually begun to exceed the number of
births.
Indeed, the Council of Europe's 2004 Demographic Yearbook warned that,
"for Europe as a whole, more people died in 2003 than were born." In
1990, said the yearbook, "three countries - Germany, Bulgaria and
Hungary - had negative natural growth for the first time. By 2002, it
was negative in fifteen countries."
LAST YEAR, after the publication of statistics revealing that 30
percent of German women have not had children, Germany's family
minister, Ursula von der Leyen, caused a stir when she said that if
her nation's birth rate did not turn around, the country would have to
"turn out the light." And while Europeans may be busy everywhere but
in the bedroom, the Muslim populations in their midst are proving far
more expansive.
As columnist Mark Steyn points out in his must-read new book, America
Alone, "What's the Muslim population of Rotterdam? Forty percent.
What's the most popular baby boy's name in Belgium? Mohammed. In
Amsterdam? Mohammed. In Malmo, Sweden? Mohammed."
Last month, the UK Daily Telegraph reported that, "Mohammed, and its
most common alternative spelling Muhammad, are now more popular
babies' names in England and Wales than George."
This, said the paper, using typically British understatement,
"reflects the diverse ethnic mix of the population."
But that "mix," so to speak, is rapidly changing - and not in
traditional Europe's favor.
ISLAM, BY all accounts, is the fastest growing religion in Europe,
spurred by immigration and high fertility rates. According to
projections by the US federal government's National Intelligence
Council, the continent's current Muslim population of 20 million will
likely double by 2025.
And as Bruce Bawer noted last year in While Europe Slept, "Already, in
most of Western Europe, 16 to 20 percent of children are
Muslims...within a couple of generations many [European] countries will
have Muslim majorities."
Not since September 8, 1683, when the Ottomans were threatening to
breach the walls of Vienna, has Islam been so perilously close to
seizing control over Western Europe.
The implications of all this are far graver than we can even begin to
imagine, and it is not just a matter of choosing new and more
hospitable tourist destinations.
An increasingly Islamified Europe will prove ever more hostile to
Israel and America, and this trend will only intensify as the Muslim
population there continues to grow.
Even if European governments succeed in reversing the curve, which
seems highly unlikely, it will be decades before it would begin to be
felt. In the meantime, however, Muslim political power on the
continent will develop and expand, and European leaders will be
hard-pressed to ignore their demands.
This makes it far less likely that Israel and the US can count on
Europe - if they ever really could - at times of crisis in the decades
ahead. Just pick an issue, from the war on terror to Palestinian
statehood, and you'll see what I mean.
For however unbalanced Europe's stance has been until now, it will
likely only grow worse in the years to come.
Europe as we know it is a thing of the past, and it is time for
Israeli and American decision-makers to take this into account as they
plan for the future. The face of Europe is changing rapidly, and with
it the continent's social and political make-up.
So if you really want to see the Eiffel Tower up close, you had best
not delay. Before you know it, it might just turn into a minaret.
--
Wherever I go it will be well with me, for it was well with me here, not
on account of the place, but of my judgments which I shall carry away
with me, for no one can deprive me of these; on the contrary, they alone
are my property, and cannot be taken away, and to possess them suffices
me wherever I am or whatever I do. -- EPICTETUS
"There are no absolute certainties in this universe. A man must try to
whip order into a yelping pack of probabilities, and uniform success is
impossible." -- Jack Vance
"Civilization is the interval between Ice Ages." -- Will Durant.
"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant
Joseph R. Darancette
--
Wherever I go it will be well with me, for it was well with me here, not
on account of the place, but of my judgments which I shall carry away
with me, for no one can deprive me of these; on the contrary, they alone
are my property, and cannot be taken away, and to possess them suffices
me wherever I am or whatever I do. -- EPICTETUS

"There are no absolute certainties in this universe. A man must try to
whip order into a yelping pack of probabilities, and uniform success is
impossible." -- Jack Vance

"Civilization is the interval between Ice Ages." -- Will Durant.


"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant

Joseph R. Darancette
***@NOSPAMverizon.net
Jerry Kraus
2007-01-22 22:07:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Captain Compassion
Right on!: Say Goodbye to Europe
Michael Freund, THE JERUSALEM POST Jan. 9, 2007
If you ever wanted to see Paris or Rome before you die, but haven't
had a chance to do so, you might want to hurry. Soon enough, most of
what we now think of as Western Europe will be transformed into a
branch of the Muslim world, which is sure to make it an even less
welcoming place for Americans, Israelis and for Jews.
That, at least, is the unpleasant, yet entirely unavoidable conclusion
to be drawn from Europe's headlong demographic drive toward oblivion.
Think I'm exaggerating? Consider a few cold hard facts.
According to a recent report by the Rand Corporation, "Across Europe,
birth rates are falling and family sizes are shrinking. The total
fertility rate is now less than two children per woman in every member
nation in the European Union."
Needless to say, demographers consider a birthrate of 2.1 children per
family to be the replacement level at which a society's population
size remains stable. Barring large-scale immigration, anything less
means decline and dissolution.
A research study published last year in the International Journal of
Andrology found a similar trend, concluding that, "Fertility rates
have fallen and are now below replacement level in all European Union
(EU) Member States. In the 20-year period since 1982," it noted, "most
EU Member State countries have had total fertility rates continuously
below replacement level."
At the bottom of the list are Spain, Italy and Greece, where
birthrates hover around just 1.3 per couple, leading some forecasters
to suggest, for example, that Italy's population could shrink by
one-third by the middle of the century.
Others, such as Germany's 1.37, the UK's 1.74 and Sweden's 1.75,
aren't all much better.
The figures are so bad that in many European countries, the total
number of deaths each year has actually begun to exceed the number of
births.
Indeed, the Council of Europe's 2004 Demographic Yearbook warned that,
"for Europe as a whole, more people died in 2003 than were born." In
1990, said the yearbook, "three countries - Germany, Bulgaria and
Hungary - had negative natural growth for the first time. By 2002, it
was negative in fifteen countries."
LAST YEAR, after the publication of statistics revealing that 30
percent of German women have not had children, Germany's family
minister, Ursula von der Leyen, caused a stir when she said that if
her nation's birth rate did not turn around, the country would have to
"turn out the light." And while Europeans may be busy everywhere but
in the bedroom, the Muslim populations in their midst are proving far
more expansive.
As columnist Mark Steyn points out in his must-read new book, America
Alone, "What's the Muslim population of Rotterdam? Forty percent.
What's the most popular baby boy's name in Belgium? Mohammed. In
Amsterdam? Mohammed. In Malmo, Sweden? Mohammed."
Last month, the UK Daily Telegraph reported that, "Mohammed, and its
most common alternative spelling Muhammad, are now more popular
babies' names in England and Wales than George."
This, said the paper, using typically British understatement,
"reflects the diverse ethnic mix of the population."
But that "mix," so to speak, is rapidly changing - and not in
traditional Europe's favor.
ISLAM, BY all accounts, is the fastest growing religion in Europe,
spurred by immigration and high fertility rates. According to
projections by the US federal government's National Intelligence
Council, the continent's current Muslim population of 20 million will
likely double by 2025.
And as Bruce Bawer noted last year in While Europe Slept, "Already, in
most of Western Europe, 16 to 20 percent of children are
Muslims...within a couple of generations many [European] countries will
have Muslim majorities."
Not since September 8, 1683, when the Ottomans were threatening to
breach the walls of Vienna, has Islam been so perilously close to
seizing control over Western Europe.
The implications of all this are far graver than we can even begin to
imagine, and it is not just a matter of choosing new and more
hospitable tourist destinations.
An increasingly Islamified Europe will prove ever more hostile to
Israel and America, and this trend will only intensify as the Muslim
population there continues to grow.
Even if European governments succeed in reversing the curve, which
seems highly unlikely, it will be decades before it would begin to be
felt. In the meantime, however, Muslim political power on the
continent will develop and expand, and European leaders will be
hard-pressed to ignore their demands.
This makes it far less likely that Israel and the US can count on
Europe - if they ever really could - at times of crisis in the decades
ahead. Just pick an issue, from the war on terror to Palestinian
statehood, and you'll see what I mean.
For however unbalanced Europe's stance has been until now, it will
likely only grow worse in the years to come.
Europe as we know it is a thing of the past, and it is time for
Israeli and American decision-makers to take this into account as they
plan for the future. The face of Europe is changing rapidly, and with
it the continent's social and political make-up.
So if you really want to see the Eiffel Tower up close, you had best
not delay. Before you know it, it might just turn into a minaret.
--
Wherever I go it will be well with me, for it was well with me here, not
on account of the place, but of my judgments which I shall carry away
with me, for no one can deprive me of these; on the contrary, they alone
are my property, and cannot be taken away, and to possess them suffices
me wherever I am or whatever I do. -- EPICTETUS
"There are no absolute certainties in this universe. A man must try to
whip order into a yelping pack of probabilities, and uniform success is
impossible." -- Jack Vance
"Civilization is the interval between Ice Ages." -- Will Durant.
"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant
Joseph R. Darancette
Religious affiliation is not hereditary. The children of muslims
needn't remain muslim. In addition, the relatively high birth rates of
European muslims likely won't be maintained as their economic situation
improves.

Have you considered the possibility that the European governments
actually like the fact that the muslims are having children, since no
one else will?
Captain Compassion
2007-01-23 02:42:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Kraus
Post by Captain Compassion
Right on!: Say Goodbye to Europe
Michael Freund, THE JERUSALEM POST Jan. 9, 2007
If you ever wanted to see Paris or Rome before you die, but haven't
had a chance to do so, you might want to hurry. Soon enough, most of
what we now think of as Western Europe will be transformed into a
branch of the Muslim world, which is sure to make it an even less
welcoming place for Americans, Israelis and for Jews.
That, at least, is the unpleasant, yet entirely unavoidable conclusion
to be drawn from Europe's headlong demographic drive toward oblivion.
Think I'm exaggerating? Consider a few cold hard facts.
According to a recent report by the Rand Corporation, "Across Europe,
birth rates are falling and family sizes are shrinking. The total
fertility rate is now less than two children per woman in every member
nation in the European Union."
Needless to say, demographers consider a birthrate of 2.1 children per
family to be the replacement level at which a society's population
size remains stable. Barring large-scale immigration, anything less
means decline and dissolution.
A research study published last year in the International Journal of
Andrology found a similar trend, concluding that, "Fertility rates
have fallen and are now below replacement level in all European Union
(EU) Member States. In the 20-year period since 1982," it noted, "most
EU Member State countries have had total fertility rates continuously
below replacement level."
At the bottom of the list are Spain, Italy and Greece, where
birthrates hover around just 1.3 per couple, leading some forecasters
to suggest, for example, that Italy's population could shrink by
one-third by the middle of the century.
Others, such as Germany's 1.37, the UK's 1.74 and Sweden's 1.75,
aren't all much better.
The figures are so bad that in many European countries, the total
number of deaths each year has actually begun to exceed the number of
births.
Indeed, the Council of Europe's 2004 Demographic Yearbook warned that,
"for Europe as a whole, more people died in 2003 than were born." In
1990, said the yearbook, "three countries - Germany, Bulgaria and
Hungary - had negative natural growth for the first time. By 2002, it
was negative in fifteen countries."
LAST YEAR, after the publication of statistics revealing that 30
percent of German women have not had children, Germany's family
minister, Ursula von der Leyen, caused a stir when she said that if
her nation's birth rate did not turn around, the country would have to
"turn out the light." And while Europeans may be busy everywhere but
in the bedroom, the Muslim populations in their midst are proving far
more expansive.
As columnist Mark Steyn points out in his must-read new book, America
Alone, "What's the Muslim population of Rotterdam? Forty percent.
What's the most popular baby boy's name in Belgium? Mohammed. In
Amsterdam? Mohammed. In Malmo, Sweden? Mohammed."
Last month, the UK Daily Telegraph reported that, "Mohammed, and its
most common alternative spelling Muhammad, are now more popular
babies' names in England and Wales than George."
This, said the paper, using typically British understatement,
"reflects the diverse ethnic mix of the population."
But that "mix," so to speak, is rapidly changing - and not in
traditional Europe's favor.
ISLAM, BY all accounts, is the fastest growing religion in Europe,
spurred by immigration and high fertility rates. According to
projections by the US federal government's National Intelligence
Council, the continent's current Muslim population of 20 million will
likely double by 2025.
And as Bruce Bawer noted last year in While Europe Slept, "Already, in
most of Western Europe, 16 to 20 percent of children are
Muslims...within a couple of generations many [European] countries will
have Muslim majorities."
Not since September 8, 1683, when the Ottomans were threatening to
breach the walls of Vienna, has Islam been so perilously close to
seizing control over Western Europe.
The implications of all this are far graver than we can even begin to
imagine, and it is not just a matter of choosing new and more
hospitable tourist destinations.
An increasingly Islamified Europe will prove ever more hostile to
Israel and America, and this trend will only intensify as the Muslim
population there continues to grow.
Even if European governments succeed in reversing the curve, which
seems highly unlikely, it will be decades before it would begin to be
felt. In the meantime, however, Muslim political power on the
continent will develop and expand, and European leaders will be
hard-pressed to ignore their demands.
This makes it far less likely that Israel and the US can count on
Europe - if they ever really could - at times of crisis in the decades
ahead. Just pick an issue, from the war on terror to Palestinian
statehood, and you'll see what I mean.
For however unbalanced Europe's stance has been until now, it will
likely only grow worse in the years to come.
Europe as we know it is a thing of the past, and it is time for
Israeli and American decision-makers to take this into account as they
plan for the future. The face of Europe is changing rapidly, and with
it the continent's social and political make-up.
So if you really want to see the Eiffel Tower up close, you had best
not delay. Before you know it, it might just turn into a minaret.
--
Wherever I go it will be well with me, for it was well with me here, not
on account of the place, but of my judgments which I shall carry away
with me, for no one can deprive me of these; on the contrary, they alone
are my property, and cannot be taken away, and to possess them suffices
me wherever I am or whatever I do. -- EPICTETUS
"There are no absolute certainties in this universe. A man must try to
whip order into a yelping pack of probabilities, and uniform success is
impossible." -- Jack Vance
"Civilization is the interval between Ice Ages." -- Will Durant.
"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant
Joseph R. Darancette
Religious affiliation is not hereditary. The children of muslims
needn't remain muslim. In addition, the relatively high birth rates of
European muslims likely won't be maintained as their economic situation
improves.
The world wide apostate rate for Islam is rather low.

Allah's Apostle said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none
has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle,
cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married
person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts
from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims."
The Hadith of Muhammad (PBOH) Volume 9, Book 83, Number 17
Post by Jerry Kraus
Have you considered the possibility that the European governments
actually like the fact that the muslims are having children, since no
one else will?
I suspect you are correct. I have but one more word for you. Ummah.
--
Wherever I go it will be well with me, for it was well with me here, not
on account of the place, but of my judgments which I shall carry away
with me, for no one can deprive me of these; on the contrary, they alone
are my property, and cannot be taken away, and to possess them suffices
me wherever I am or whatever I do. -- EPICTETUS

"There are no absolute certainties in this universe. A man must try to
whip order into a yelping pack of probabilities, and uniform success is
impossible." -- Jack Vance

"Civilization is the interval between Ice Ages." -- Will Durant.


"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant

Joseph R. Darancette
***@NOSPAMverizon.net
Zulu
2007-01-22 22:29:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Captain Compassion
Right on!: Say Goodbye to Europe
Michael Freund, THE JERUSALEM POST Jan. 9, 2007
If you ever wanted to see Paris or Rome before you die, but haven't
had a chance to do so, you might want to hurry. Soon enough, most of
what we now think of as Western Europe will be transformed into a
branch of the Muslim world, which is sure to make it an even less
welcoming place for Americans, Israelis and for Jews.
Are you telling us that we will have far more Zidane to play fooball in
France?
Captain Compassion
2007-01-23 02:43:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zulu
Post by Captain Compassion
Right on!: Say Goodbye to Europe
Michael Freund, THE JERUSALEM POST Jan. 9, 2007
If you ever wanted to see Paris or Rome before you die, but haven't
had a chance to do so, you might want to hurry. Soon enough, most of
what we now think of as Western Europe will be transformed into a
branch of the Muslim world, which is sure to make it an even less
welcoming place for Americans, Israelis and for Jews.
Are you telling us that we will have far more Zidane to play fooball in
France?
Head butts and all.
--
Wherever I go it will be well with me, for it was well with me here, not
on account of the place, but of my judgments which I shall carry away
with me, for no one can deprive me of these; on the contrary, they alone
are my property, and cannot be taken away, and to possess them suffices
me wherever I am or whatever I do. -- EPICTETUS

"There are no absolute certainties in this universe. A man must try to
whip order into a yelping pack of probabilities, and uniform success is
impossible." -- Jack Vance

"Civilization is the interval between Ice Ages." -- Will Durant.


"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant

Joseph R. Darancette
***@NOSPAMverizon.net
Continue reading on narkive:
Loading...