Post by Mike Flannigan Post by Barney Lyon
When you're the only one who knows what God wants, because God speaks
only to you, that's taking the Lord's name in vain.
He's simply trying to explain current events in a biblical context. As I
said, the bible is replete with examples of God taking out his wrath on
individuals and societies that turn their back on him or go against him. So
according to you, people who believe that are crazed hateful loons. Does
that mean all Christians, or just the ones that believe biblical account?
You tell me, Flannigan, what the biblical context was for the coal
miners deaths this week? Maybe God isn't happy with the Bush-Cheney
energy policy that is destroying His creations on Earth? Could God be
punishing those miners and their families for supporting the oxymoron
Why? I doubt the existence of god. If there is a god then he is without a
doubt a hands off god who lets the chips fall where they may.
On the one hand you don't believe in God, but you're sure that if He
exists, you know his intentions. You "know his heart."
Post by Mike Flannigan
intervened in the affairs of man and struck down Sharon then why wouldn't he
intervene and stop the horrors of the world? Why wouldn't he have struck
down Hitler for example?
Go see "Oh God."
Post by Mike Flannigan
The difference is that I don't feel threatened by Robertson expressing his
opinions. Liberals do.
Now you know what's in all liberals' hearts.
As a liberal, I know many liberals who laugh at Robertson and dismiss
him as a demented fool. Aside from voting, they're not politically
active. They aren't savvy to the political machine that Robertson and
others in the conservative Christian movement have built from money
they've been able to get as a result of a free ride on the public's air
waves. American citizens can't get C-Span, which broadcasts House and
Senate sessions, for free, but they can get hour after hour of Pat
Robertson and other Christian broadcasting on their televisions for
Public air waves, Flannigan. They get to use them, for nothing, so
that they can bilk the public for money. It's quite the scam.
It was bad enough when they were using the money to live lavishly and
giving lip service only to charitable endeavors for those in need. But
then they turned their sights to politics, to government. To impose
their beliefs, their morality, on the citizens of a secular nation.
What's the harm? You've already said that you don't believe in God.
Do you believe that that's the only thing that separates you from them?
Are there other values that they have that you don't? Are there
citizens who worship other religions in the U.S., who don't share the
values of these Christians? Are there moral, law-abiding, upstanding
atheist citizens who don't share the values of these Christians?
Here's one example for you that I've got a problem with:
Ministers Say They Blessed Seats Ahead of Alito Hearing
By JUNE KRONHOLZ
Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
January 5, 2006 7:20 p.m.
WASHINGTON -- Insisting that God "certainly needs to be involved" in
the Supreme Court confirmation process, three Christian ministers today
blessed the doors of the hearing room where Senate Judiciary Committee
members will begin considering the nomination of Judge Samuel Alito on
Capitol Hill police barred them from entering the room to continue what
they called a consecration service. But in a bit of one-upsmanship, the
three announced that they had let themselves in a day earlier, touching
holy oil to the seats where Judge Alito, the senators, witnesses,
Senate staffers and the press will sit, and praying for each of the 13
committee members by name.
"We did adequately apply oil to all the seats," said the Rev. Rob
Schenck, who identified himself as an evangelical Christian and as
president of the National Clergy Council in Washington.
Rev. Schenck called the consecration service the kick-off in a series
of prayer meetings that will continue throughout the confirmation
Capitol Hill police said they weren't aware that the three had entered
the hearing room earlier, but added that hearing rooms typically aren't
locked because "they're not of interest to anyone." Lt. Dominick Costa
said the Judiciary Committee room will be swept for bombs and perhaps
for electronic bugging equipment before the hearing begins.
The three ministers insisted they weren't taking sides in the Alito
debate. "This is not a pro-Alito prayer," insisted the Rev. Patrick
Mahoney, director of the Christian Defense Coalition. With abortion,
public prayer, gay marriage and right-to-life issues among those
topping public debate, however, "God...is interested in what goes on"
in the nomination hearing, Rev. Schenck said.
The two men, along with Grace Nwachukwu, general manager of a group
called Faith and Action, read three Psalms outside the committee room,
knelt to say the Lord's Prayer and marked a cross in oil on the
committee door before leaving.
Rev. Schenck said he and Rev. Mahoney had blessed the same room before
hearings for Chief Justice John Roberts last year. That hearing "went
very well," Rev. Schenck said.
It's easy to try to dismiss these people as wingnuts, harmless cranks
and kooks, but one of them became the U.S. Attorney General. Who can
forget the time that Ashcroft draped the statue of Venus at the DOJ,
covered up the titties? Big deal, you say, when he's gone you can take
the drapes off. Not like when the Taliban blew up the Buddhas (graven
idols), this is just temporary.
Not actually. Their way of thinking affects how they think the
government works and how all Americans should live.
As Attorney General, Ashcroft diverted FBI officers (a team of 8) to
open up an investigation into legal pornography. This team, the
"anti-obscenity squad," is still at it. When they could be working on
terrorism, or child pornography, or any kind of crime that is already
on the books, they're spending taxpayer money looking to make legal
John Ashcroft actually had himself anointed the night before he was
sworn in as AG. With Crisco(tm) oil, because he/they (his followers?)
couldn't find "holy" oil?
When you hear God speaking, to you, and nobody else can, and God is
telling you to do things which in order to do you must not only change
the law of the land in a democratic republic, but you have to break
rules and laws in order to accomplish, you don't give this guy free
access to a microphone that has been paid for by the American people.
Post by Mike Flannigan Post by Barney Lyon
No, of course not, because Pat Robertson probably has stock in Big
Coal, and Exxon Mobil, and Halliburton.
And have you looked in the mirror lately?
When Pat Robertson said God struck Sharon down for giving away Israeli
land he didn't happen to mention that he, too, might not be alive much
longer because the Israeli government is planning to give up a large
slice of land to American Christian evangelicals to build a biblical
theme park by the Sea of Galilee, did he?
A consortium of Christian groups, led by the television evangelist Pat
Robertson, is in negotiation with the Israeli ministry of tourism and a
deal is expected in the coming months.
How silly. You must be desperate. Building a theme park in Israel is no more
the equivalent of giving away land than building a theme park in the US or
You think that giving land to very rich Christian foreign nationals for
a crass commercial enterprise is no different than giving land to local
war-ravaged impoverished people with some title history in the land so
that they may build shelter, grow food, and have a life?
Your value system is warped, Flannigan.
But that's ok. This is America, and you can value any thing that you
want as you don't force your values on me. The same goes for Pat
Robertson and his brand of Christianity.