Discussion:
Bill Clinton Blamed For Sub Prime Mortgage Fiasco
(too old to reply)
Sebastian Rector
2008-09-29 21:44:47 UTC
Permalink
But it not just Bill Clinton. FDR, Jimmy Carter, Democrats in Congress
and
the Alan Greenspan Fed must also accept responsibility. The free-
market and
Wall Street are the victims, not villains, when situation is analyzed
rationally.

http://thestrangedeathofliberalamerica.com/foreclosed-blame-bill-clintons-repeal-of-glass-steagall.html
Able Todoit
2008-09-29 21:48:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sebastian Rector
But it not just Bill Clinton. FDR, Jimmy Carter, Democrats in Congress
and
the Alan Greenspan Fed must also accept responsibility. The free-
market and
Wall Street are the victims, not villains, when situation is analyzed
rationally.
http://thestrangedeathofliberalamerica.com/foreclosed-blame-bill-clintons-repeal-of-glass-steagall.html
He did sign the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act into law. That is what caused the
whole mess we're in today.

In his defense, the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act had bi-partisan support and was
passed by a veto-proof majority.
W***@Ireland.com
2008-09-29 22:40:15 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 14:48:56 -0700, "Able Todoit"
Post by Able Todoit
Post by Sebastian Rector
But it not just Bill Clinton. FDR, Jimmy Carter, Democrats in Congress
and
the Alan Greenspan Fed must also accept responsibility. The free-
market and
Wall Street are the victims, not villains, when situation is analyzed
rationally.
http://thestrangedeathofliberalamerica.com/foreclosed-blame-bill-clintons-repeal-of-glass-steagall.html
He did sign the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act into law. That is what caused the
whole mess we're in today.
In his defense, the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act had bi-partisan support and was
passed by a veto-proof majority.
You're both wrong - it was George Bailey's Savings and Loan and the
dirt Ann Coulter dug up.

In Ann Coulter's new book - Bailey S&L, the Real Story - she tracks
the current mortgage meltdown to its incipient stage and the true
perpetrator of the current crisis. It was not Wall Street and its
derivatives. It was not the mortgage industry whose only requirement
for granting a loan was the borrower's ability to fog a mirror. It was
not lack of government oversight on investment banks. According to
Ann, the real culprit is none other than George Bailey and his savings
and loan. You remember George who was the Jimmy Stewart character in
Frank Capra's It's A Wonderful Life. He inherited his father's
business and, according to Ms. Coulter, promptly ran it into the
ground thru poor business practices and out and out greed. He
embezzled funds in order to maintain the lavish lifestyle that he and
his family was living at the expense of the entire Potterville
population. In an effort to cover his crime, he blamed Uncle Billy for
the theft of the Bailey S&L assets. In reality the money was spent on
booze and broads - both shared by his accomplice Clarence. Uncle Billy
is now serving twenty to life in the Potterville Prison and
Correctional Facility. As for George, he left his wife Mary and took
off with the town bimbo, Violet. The money that was missing was worth
$700 billion in today's dollars which is the exact amount necessary to
stem the current crisis. Coincidence? Ms Coulter thinks not. As for
Clarence, it seems he was not really an angel. Nor was he really
Clarence. In her research Ms. Coulter came to the conclusion that, in
reality, the Clarence character was none other than Dick Cheney. And
the ringing bell on the Christmas tree at the movie's conclusion? That
was nothing more than Mr. Cheney finally getting his horns.

There it is. Just as believable as you blaming Clinton, and McCain
blaming everything on Obama. Totally bizarre.

WB Yeats
Able Todoit
2008-09-29 22:57:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by W***@Ireland.com
On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 14:48:56 -0700, "Able Todoit"
Post by Able Todoit
Post by Sebastian Rector
But it not just Bill Clinton. FDR, Jimmy Carter, Democrats in Congress
and
the Alan Greenspan Fed must also accept responsibility. The free-
market and
Wall Street are the victims, not villains, when situation is analyzed
rationally.
http://thestrangedeathofliberalamerica.com/foreclosed-blame-bill-clintons-repeal-of-glass-steagall.html
He did sign the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act into law. That is what caused the
whole mess we're in today.
In his defense, the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act had bi-partisan support and was
passed by a veto-proof majority.
You're both wrong - it was George Bailey's Savings and Loan and the
dirt Ann Coulter dug up.
In Ann Coulter's new book - Bailey S&L, the Real Story - she tracks
the current mortgage meltdown to its incipient stage and the true
perpetrator of the current crisis. It was not Wall Street and its
derivatives. It was not the mortgage industry whose only requirement
for granting a loan was the borrower's ability to fog a mirror. It was
not lack of government oversight on investment banks. According to
Ann, the real culprit is none other than George Bailey and his savings
and loan. You remember George who was the Jimmy Stewart character in
Frank Capra's It's A Wonderful Life. He inherited his father's
business and, according to Ms. Coulter, promptly ran it into the
ground thru poor business practices and out and out greed. He
embezzled funds in order to maintain the lavish lifestyle that he and
his family was living at the expense of the entire Potterville
population. In an effort to cover his crime, he blamed Uncle Billy for
the theft of the Bailey S&L assets. In reality the money was spent on
booze and broads - both shared by his accomplice Clarence. Uncle Billy
is now serving twenty to life in the Potterville Prison and
Correctional Facility. As for George, he left his wife Mary and took
off with the town bimbo, Violet. The money that was missing was worth
$700 billion in today's dollars which is the exact amount necessary to
stem the current crisis. Coincidence? Ms Coulter thinks not. As for
Clarence, it seems he was not really an angel. Nor was he really
Clarence. In her research Ms. Coulter came to the conclusion that, in
reality, the Clarence character was none other than Dick Cheney. And
the ringing bell on the Christmas tree at the movie's conclusion? That
was nothing more than Mr. Cheney finally getting his horns.
There it is. Just as believable as you blaming Clinton, and McCain
blaming everything on Obama. Totally bizarre.
WB Yeats
I don't blame Clinton, McCain or Obama. The Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act did
start the ball rolling downhill towards today's crisis.

Both sides, Democrats and Republicans supported the Act; so the blame is
bi-partisan.
Rex B
2008-09-29 23:34:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Able Todoit
Post by Sebastian Rector
But it not just Bill Clinton. FDR, Jimmy Carter, Democrats in Congress
and the Alan Greenspan Fed must also accept responsibility.
For putting in place a structure that prevented several market runs
and several recessions from turning into another Great Depression.

It was thanks to the Glass-Steagall act that helped Ronald Reagan turn
around the Democrat Congress/Senate/President Carter administration
with their runaway spending, trade deficit, hyper-inflation,
recession, and prime interest rates that exceeded the 21% usury laws
in most of the states.

But of course, one of Reagan's mechanisms for pushing more cash into
the market was to have Phil Gramm push for deregulation of the Savings
& Loan banks, allowing them to finance commercial property such as
shopping centers, rental properties, and other "high risk" loans,
without having to calculate depreciation based on FDIC bank history.

The result was too many malls, with high vacancy rates, a tightening
in the mortgage market (since S&Ls wanted to loan for the higher
returns), and ultimately triggered a collapse of the FSLIC and
absorbtion of mortgages and housing equity into the FDIC banks. One
of the first to go was Lincoln Savings - and John McCain argued on
their behalf, not realizing that they were insolvent. Later, when
McCain got the real story, he testified on behalf of the plaintiffs in
a class-action lawsuit that eventually lead to fines and personal
liability for the head of Lincoln.

And it was Phil Gramm who was pushing really hard to get the repeal of
the Glass-Steagal act, which had been fundamental safeguards including
maximum lending guidelines and statutory risk calculations.

Clinton wasn't all that keen on the repeal, but Gramm convinced
Clinton that if he opposed the repeal, he would be blamed for the
recession in 2000. The deal was supposed to have new safeguards

The act was the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, Phil Gramm being the key
sponsor and originator.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramm-Leach-Bliley_Act

Congressional history of the Act
<quote>
The bills were introduced in the Senate by Phil Gramm (R-TX) and in
the House of Representatives by James Leach (R-IA). The bills were
passed by a 54-44 vote along party lines with Republican support in
the Senate and by a 343-86 vote in the House of Representatives. Nov
4, 1999: After passing both the Senate and House the bill was moved to
a conference committee to work out the differences between the Senate
and House versions. The final bill resolving the differences was
passed in the Senate 90-8-1 and in the House: 362-57-15. This 'veto
proof legislation' was signed into law by President Bill Clinton on
November 12, 1999[1]

The banking industry had been seeking the repeal of Glass-Steagall
since at least the 1980s. In 1987 the Congressional Research Service
prepared a report which explored the case for preserving Glass-
Steagall and the case against preserving the act.[2]
</quote>
Post by Able Todoit
He did sign the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act into law.
That is what caused the whole mess we're in today.
In his defense, the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act had bi-partisan
support and was passed by a veto-proof majority.
The "promise" of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley act was that it would make
more money available to stimulate the economy.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramm-Leach-Bliley_Act
<quote>
Many of the largest banks, brokerages, and insurance companies desired
the Act at the time. The justification was that individuals usually
put more money into investments when the economy is doing well, but
they put most of their money into savings accounts when the economy
turns bad. With the new Act, they would be able to do both 'savings'
and 'investment' at the same financial institution, which would be
able to do well in both good and bad economic times.
</quote>

<quote>
The Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act (GLBA) allowed commercial and investment
banks to consolidate. For example, Citibank merged with Travelers
Group, an insurance company, and in 1998 formed the conglomerate
Citigroup, a corporation combining banking and insurance underwriting
services. Other major mergers in the financial sector had already
taken place such as the Smith-Barney, Shearson, Primerica and
Travelers Insurance Corporation combination in the mid-1990s. This
combination, announced in 1993 and finalized in 1994, would have
violated the Glass-Steagall Act and the Bank Holding Company Act by
combining insurance and securities companies, if not for a temporary
waiver process [1]. The law was passed to legalize these mergers on a
permanent basis. Historically, the combined industry has been known as
the financial services industry.
</quote>

What few Democrats realized was that the act also freed banks to use
FDIC insured savings accounts to purchase investment instruments, such
as mutual funds, and swizzled loan pools.

Keep in mind that the final draft was approved by the Banking
committee - chaired by Phil Gramm, McCain's financial advisor - at
about 2:45 AM on October 22, very shortly before a recess, and was
pushed for a vote with very little time for a close review.

The proponents of the bill pushed only the up-side, and tried to
minimize the down-side. After all, the the economy had been growing
at double-digit rates, inflation was down, and the market was way up.
The federal deficit had been cut in half. The market had been on a
steady rise, and technology stocks had been going up 20% per year.

Quite simply, the USA savers were fat with money that banks were
hoping that customers would invest.

Almost immediately after the measure was passed, companies like
Citicorp were having their Primerica agents recommend unsound
"investment strategies". They tried to get people to cash in
universal life insurance policies, and invest them in high-risk mutual
funds. They tried to get people to cash in 30 year fixed rate
mortgages, and refinance at lower initial rate variable rate mortgages
- since interest rates were going down, they also recommended that
people finance for the full equity in their homes, and invest the
excess equity into their high-risk mutual funds.

Later, as the markets started to unravel, these same organizations
pushed for further deregulation. Soon, banks were offering zero down-
payment mortgages, "future value" mortgages based on the amount your
house would be worth in 2-3 years, and sub-prime variable rate
mortgages. And as much as possible, mortgage brokers were given every
incentive to push variable rate mortgages.

7.5 Million homeowners face foreclosure.
5 million have negative equity value.
Another 10 million have variable rate mortgages that will trigger
defaults and foreclosures.

Another 10 million have less than the 20% equity recommended under the
Glass-Steigal act.

Finally, the Principle mortgage insurance is not pre-paid, but instead
is part of monthly payments, so if a home-owner defaults, the PMI
doesn't get paid, and the insurance lapses.

The net result is that about 35 million homes, with an average
mortgage of about $200,000 each, are now "at risk" - with the
potential of $7 trillion in "at risk" home loans.

Worse, the large houses purchased by Baby Boomers when they had large
families, won't have that many buyers now that those Boomers' kids
have left the nest.

In the 1980s, when the Savings and Loans banks were on the verge of
collapse, places like Aurora Colorado saw homes, town-houses, and
condos lose as much as 80% of their equity value. Much of this was
because boomers had moved on from these "starter" homes. Similar
drops of 80% could hit the general housing markets, triggering massive
drops in home equity. This could trigger over $10 trillion in
uncollectable debt, or un-sellable homes.

With people unable to move, they can't accept transfers and
promotions, and will be more vulnerable to layoffs, making them the
first targets for cutbacks.

With no jobs, no access to capital to form businesses, and massive
home equity debt, their credit cards, would also be frozen. They
would have to raid their IRA and 401K funds, or even "retire early" -
triggering a run on the stock and mutual funds markets, triggering a
huge crash, probably in 2010, maybe earlier.
Sebastian Rector
2008-09-30 12:48:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Able Todoit
Post by Sebastian Rector
But it not just Bill Clinton. FDR, Jimmy Carter, Democrats in Congress
and
the Alan Greenspan Fed must also accept responsibility. The free-
market and
Wall Street are the victims, not villains, when situation is analyzed
rationally.
http://thestrangedeathofliberalamerica.com/foreclosed-blame-bill-clin...
He did sign the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act into law. That is what caused the
whole mess we're in today.>
In his defense, the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act had bi-partisan support and was
What did Gramm-Leach-Bliley have to do with with sub-prime and no-down
payment mortgages? What did it have to do with the huge quasi-
government financial institutions,
Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae?
Post by Able Todoit
passed by a veto-proof majority.
Crap Detector
2008-09-29 21:56:51 UTC
Permalink
--
Everywhere we come upon the ease
with which people passed from Conservatism
to what were in theory its most virulent
enemies Fascism and Nazism. Prescott Bush
was a close friend and business partner with
Adolf Hitler and the apple never falls far
from the tree".


Canadian Neo Nazi Troll and Right Wing Socialist Crackpot ROSS JOHN LAMBOURN
(AKA Sebastian Rector / Proteus / Crap Detector) wrote:


Another blindly partisan radical right wing extremist ideologue, posting from
his alternate reality of lies, half-truths, propaganda and distortions.
Obviously a gullible pathological liar who believes his own transparent
deceptions. A fool who has no courage in his convictions so he must tell
lies in a feeble attempt to boost failing support for his "beliefs".


Ross John "Sebastian Rector / Proteus / Crap Detector" Lambourn is a right
wing freedom hating hypocrite, asshole, attention starved loon and liar. He
is a retired career civil servant who resides in Canada sucking from the
social safety net and living off a tax payer funded pension. It's no end of
irony that he sees himself as a capitalist. He frequently uses the above
pseudonyms to fake support for the gibberish he posts on Usenet.


Obviously, he's a gullible pathological liar who believes his own transparent
deceptions. A fool who has no courage in his convictions so he must tell
lies in a feeble attempt to boost failing support for his "beliefs".


He is also a noted seditious America hating traitor who has continually
called for the suspension of the US Constitution and the cancellation of
American civil liberties. Lambourn is consumed with hate and bitterness and
expresses it by posting incoherent screeds based on his distorted and
delusional view of the world.


Most know him for his early morning, booze fueled rants which rarely make
sense and serve no other purpose than to feed his perverse cravings for
public ridicule.
GR*cksuxc*ck
2008-09-29 22:20:37 UTC
Permalink
holy fuck will the right wing neo cons ever take responsibility for
anything?
Post by Sebastian Rector
But it not just Bill Clinton. FDR, Jimmy Carter, Democrats in Congress
and
the Alan Greenspan Fed must also accept responsibility. The free-
market and
Wall Street are the victims, not villains, when situation is analyzed
rationally.
http://thestrangedeathofliberalamerica.com/foreclosed-blame-bill-clintons-repeal-of-glass-steagall.html
bushlyed
2008-09-29 22:38:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by GR*cksuxc*ck
holy fuck will the right wing neo cons ever take responsibility for
anything?
Post by Sebastian Rector
But it not just Bill Clinton. FDR, Jimmy Carter, Democrats in Congress
and
the Alan Greenspan Fed must also accept responsibility. The free-
market and
Wall Street are the victims, not villains, when situation is analyzed
rationally.
http://thestrangedeathofliberalamerica.com/foreclosed-blame-bill-clin
Not so long as the neocons have the dog ate my homework excuse
SaPeIsMa
2008-10-01 23:01:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by GR*cksuxc*ck
Post by Sebastian Rector
But it not just Bill Clinton. FDR, Jimmy Carter, Democrats in Congress
and
the Alan Greenspan Fed must also accept responsibility. The free-
market and
Wall Street are the victims, not villains, when situation is analyzed
rationally.
http://thestrangedeathofliberalamerica.com/foreclosed-blame-bill-clin
holy fuck will the right wing neo cons ever take responsibility for
anything?
#
# Not so long as the neocons have the dog ate my homework excuse
#

What's your excuse ?
The dog ate your brain ?
(Poor thing must have died of starvation)

SaPeIsMa
2008-10-01 22:59:53 UTC
Permalink
Why should they take it for something they're not responsible for ?
Post by GR*cksuxc*ck
holy fuck will the right wing neo cons ever take responsibility for
anything?
Post by Sebastian Rector
But it not just Bill Clinton. FDR, Jimmy Carter, Democrats in Congress
and
the Alan Greenspan Fed must also accept responsibility. The free-
market and
Wall Street are the victims, not villains, when situation is analyzed
rationally.
http://thestrangedeathofliberalamerica.com/foreclosed-blame-bill-clintons-repeal-of-glass-steagall.html
Chom Noamsky
2008-09-29 22:25:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sebastian Rector
But it not just Bill Clinton. FDR, Jimmy Carter, Democrats in Congress
and
the Alan Greenspan Fed must also accept responsibility. The free-
market and
Wall Street are the victims, not villains, when situation is analyzed
rationally.
http://thestrangedeathofliberalamerica.com/foreclosed-blame-bill-clintons-repeal-of-glass-steagall.html
This is the big conservative talking point making the rounds of the
'conservative' media such as National Review, Fox News, FreeRepublic, WSJ,
Washington Times, etc.

They deperately are looking to scapegoat everything from Clinton to
minorities.

It's a big lie.

The Community Reinvestment Act never forced a single lender into making bad
loans.
galathaea
2008-09-29 22:34:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Sebastian Rector
But it not just Bill Clinton. FDR, Jimmy Carter, Democrats in Congress
and
the Alan Greenspan Fed must also accept responsibility. The free-
market and
Wall Street are the victims, not villains, when situation is analyzed
rationally.
http://thestrangedeathofliberalamerica.com/foreclosed-blame-bill-clin...
This is the big conservative talking point making the rounds of the
'conservative' media such as National Review, Fox News, FreeRepublic, WSJ,
Washington Times, etc.
They deperately are looking to scapegoat everything from Clinton to
minorities.
It's a big lie.
The Community Reinvestment Act never forced a single lender into making bad
loans.
they're trying hard to be hip
get this "viral"

i've been seeing a big push on this in unexpected areas of the web and
chat

part of making it stick
is keeping deregulation an ambiguous term
so that the removal of reporting requirements against fraud
(which are behind the bundled securities now found devalued)
is not tied directly to the balloon that just popped

of course
line charts showing value misreported
don't line up with any of these prior administrations
but were most significantly correlated
to the removal of these guidelines in 2004

but that don't get discussed much...

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
galathaea: prankster, fablist, magician, liar
W***@Ireland.com
2008-09-29 23:33:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chom Noamsky
Post by Sebastian Rector
But it not just Bill Clinton. FDR, Jimmy Carter, Democrats in Congress
and
the Alan Greenspan Fed must also accept responsibility. The free-
market and
Wall Street are the victims, not villains, when situation is analyzed
rationally.
http://thestrangedeathofliberalamerica.com/foreclosed-blame-bill-clintons-repeal-of-glass-steagall.html
This is the big conservative talking point making the rounds of the
'conservative' media such as National Review, Fox News, FreeRepublic, WSJ,
Washington Times, etc.
They deperately are looking to scapegoat everything from Clinton to
minorities.
It's a big lie.
The Community Reinvestment Act never forced a single lender into making bad
loans.
There's an FHA number that says the loans granted under a basket of
federal programs have a failure rate at a slight tick above the
national average. When the subprimes went South, it dragged everything
down and these loans began to fail. Of course then today it's all
ACORN's fault. Even if they are guilty of mismanaging monies, it's a
drop in the bucket compared to Lehman's $669 billion. There were NO
subprime loans granted by any federally managed program. One of FNMA's
and FMAC's problems - aside from robber-baron management - was they
purchased $200 billion of derivatives at face value - when anybody in
their right minds - that excludes Wall Street - knew they were worth
nowhere near that. The best talking point I've heard from fiscal
conservatives - and they're absolutely right - is to mark the paper to
its market value. The banks and financials are shooting for 80c on the
dollar - the paper is worth about 40c. This would leave plenty of room
to appraise the properties at their fair market value, refi for those
interested in keeping their homes, and sell these homes at market
value - not the inflated mortgage principal of these same homes. If
anyone has been thru a neighborhood filled with foreclosures, they can
see the hidden cost of doing nothing.

WB Yeats
Zeke
2008-09-30 00:07:53 UTC
Permalink
Does anyone think that the 7777.7 fall in the stock market today is kinda
suspicious ?

It looks like a computer hack to me. 7777.7 ?

It is supposed to put pressure on congress to bailout all those millionaire
stockholders.

They wanted all those houses for people with bad credit & no credit. Thanks
to Barney Frank & the Black Cacus. Caucus.

I did not get any of the profits so I do not need any of the losses.

Z
Post by Sebastian Rector
But it not just Bill Clinton. FDR, Jimmy Carter, Democrats in Congress
and
the Alan Greenspan Fed must also accept responsibility. The free-
market and
Wall Street are the victims, not villains, when situation is analyzed
rationally.
http://thestrangedeathofliberalamerica.com/foreclosed-blame-bill-clintons-repeal-of-glass-steagall.html
Kickin' Ass and Takin' Names
2008-09-30 00:09:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sebastian Rector
But it not just Bill Clinton.
Why did it take you rightwankers so long to blame Clinton? Usually
you assholes blame Clinton within two nanoseconds of any disaster --
this one took a full two hours before you cranked up your bullshit
machine.
d***@gmail.com
2008-09-30 03:23:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sebastian Rector
But it not just Bill Clinton. FDR, Jimmy Carter, Democrats in Congress
and the Alan Greenspan Fed must also accept responsibility. The free-
market and Wall Street are the victims, not villains, when situation is
analyzed rationally.
Lambourn -- it's not working any more! American voters are LAUGHING
at crackpots like you, LAUGHING at John McCain, LAUGHING at Sarah
Palin, LAUGHING at Mises and Hayek.

It's over. Done. Finshed... and your team lost. ... and I don't
mean just the 2008 American election: I mean you lost the ideological
war... just like Marxism lost in 1989 when the Berlin Wall fell down.
The economic collapse of Reaganomics in 2008 is the falling Berlin
Wall of neoconservatism, and liars like you will now have to amswer to
their countrymen across the G7 countries as surely as the Stasi and
KGB informers and neigbourhood commisars had to answer to THEIR people
in 1989.

Done. Finished. Over. Bye-bye!
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