Discussion:
Bush, Immigrants, and November's Election
(too old to reply)
Dave Simpson
2004-01-07 19:52:20 UTC
Permalink
Has Bush just done something that will cost him re-election in
November?

It's easy to analyze the guest-worker idea for what it is, a modern
"bracero" program that is a sop to the business community, but what
was Dubya thinking?

Do Bush and the GOP think that they can expect Republican voters to
stay with them because the alternatives are worse? Even if those
Republican voters may now feel betrayed?

If Bush and the GOP were counting on a sop to Hispanic voters, anybody
with a working brain can remind them that Hispanics already are
well-established as Democratic voters. (2/3 is the figure from the
news article below, and anyone familiar with immigrant-related
politics in places like California knows well which party Hispanics
tend to prefer!) About the only Hispanics that can be counted on to
vote for GOP candidates is the Cuban community in southern Florida.

We who are independent voters aren't pledged to either party, and
while the Democrats are worse for the USA, when you have a liberal
Republican like Bush who does something like this (which also is a
slap to liberals whose views are protectionist or
job-saving-oriented), you may see more voters than normal feel moved
to swing to the other side -- to consider voting for a real Democrat
rather than one with a dishonest "GOP" label.

It remains to be seen how the Democratic candidates, and Hillary
Clinton, will react to this. Not to mention the far right paleocons
such as Pat Buchanan who have been cast out of power, nor the radicals
like Kucinich (who can exploit this for his "living wage" issue) or
some candidate from the Greens or other extremist left parties.

As it is, with this decision by Dubya I was reminded of the remark
about Dubya's father, once he betrayed the voters with his new taxes
and with other wrong acts, and the image of a replica of Bush Elder's
head on a platter being circulated at a meeting at the Heritage
Foundation (pre-eminent conservative-GOP think tank in the US).

Did Dubya just make un-electable Democrats suddenly electable, or at
least hopeful, after all? Allowing illegal immigrants to legally work
here, and to provide government benefits to them once they've gone
home, if they go home?

IS HE CRAZY? (We already suspect he's in too good with the business
community, as he has been regarding China, and in a more specific way
with Saudi Arabia.)

Stupid move, Dubya. You just breathed life in the Dim-O-Dwarves, just
as your father did for Bubba. Will you and others in the GOP become
nervous about it, if Americans are angered about it, or will you be
out of touch with that anger as your dad and the GOP was in 1992?

The Democrats are toxic to America and are the Party of Crooks,
Losers, and Scum in America -- but they're not the one making and
announcing this policy decision. Dubya is.


News article below, some appropriate remarks added

...

[AP]

Illegal immigrants could stay, work under Bush plan

by Jennifer Loven


Millions of illegal migrant farmers, hotel maids and others working in
the shadows of American society would be granted legal status and
freed from the threat of deportation under an election-year proposal
President Bush wants Congress to approve.

[Will the pro-immigration multiculturalist Dems in the Congress
suddenly become nationalist and nativist?]


Bush called Mexican President Vicente Fox to brief him Wednesday
morning in advance of Bush's speech later in the day at the White
House.

[Your safety valve and hard-currency income stream are being
strengthened, Mr. Presidente. You may even see income kept coming
after your people come home.]


"There are some jobs in this country, in our growing economy, that
Americans are not filling," White House press secretary Scott
McClellan said. "That presents an opportunity for workers from abroad
who want to work."

[Will the Dims spin this to their delight? "Export good jobs to
low-wage nations, import low-wage immigrants to fill what's left! Is
that what you want to vote for in 2004, America?"]


Bush's proposals break a virtual silence on immigration since the
Sept. 11, 2001, attacks raised fears about border security.

[Dims: "The Bush administration wants to increase immigration, while
security against terrorist still consists of making little old ladies
take off their shoes and risk being groped at airports. Is that what
you want to vote for in 2004, America?"]


The president argues that his plan would make America safer by giving
the government a better idea of who was crossing U.S. borders, bolster
the economy by meeting employers' need for willing low-wage workers,
and fulfill a mandate for compassion by guaranteeing the rights and
legitimacy of illegal workers.

[Dims: "Compassion to immigrants, meanness to Americans. Is that what
you want to vote for in 2004, America?"]


Likely to be left unsaid during the president's speech were the
political dividends White House advisers hoped the proposal would pay.

[Such as all the Hispanic GOP votes in California?]



By dangling the prospect of legal status to some 8 million illegal
immigrants now estimated to be in this country, about half of them
Mexican, Bush was granting a top priority of the business community

[NO! Really? Oh, and is any US company currently building factories
in China?]


while making his most aggressive move yet to court Hispanic voters -
the nation's fastest-growing electoral bloc.

[Such as all the Hispanic GOP votes in California?]


He won just over one-third of that constituency in 2000 but wants to
expand his support in the community to better his chances for
re-election in November.

The proposal would provide a way for illegal immigrants who can show
they have employment to work legally, although temporarily, in the
United States. The new "temporary worker program," which also would
include people still in their native countries who have a job lined up
in the United States, would not, like the temporary visa programs
already in existence that involve mostly technical experts, apply only
to a certain sector of the economy or industry.

Much of the detail of president's proposal was to be worked out by
Congress in future negotiations with the White House.

For instance, Bush wants to increase the nation's yearly allotment of
green cards that allow for permanent U.S. residency, but won't say by
how much, the officials said. Around 1 million green cards a year are
issued now, though just 140,000 of them are employment-based.

He also wants the workers' first three-year term in the program to be
renewable but won't say for how long; he won't set the amount workers
should pay to apply for the program; and he won't specify how to
enforce the requirement that no American worker wants the job the
foreign worker is taking, according to administration officials who
spoke on condition of anonymity.

Perhaps the biggest unresolved question is how the plan will allow
illegal immigrants access, which they do not now have, to the process
of applying for green cards, or permanent U.S. residency.

Sensitive to the opposition of many conservatives in Bush's own party
to any reward for those who broke the law when they entered the United
States, the administration officials said repeatedly that the
president is not proposing blanket amnesty for illegals and that the
program is not linked to the green card process.

But they also said that workers accepted into the temporary program
could immediately, with an employer's sponsorship, begin applying for
a green card. Although these workers would get no advantage over other
applicants, an illegal immigrant who attempted to apply now would
simply be deported.

If permanent residency were not granted before the worker's term was
up - a likely outcome given the long backlog of applicants and the
relatively small percentage of applicants who receive green cards each
year - the person would have to return to his or her home country to
apply from there.

As a result, even though program participants would be allowed to have
dependents with them and be able to move freely between their country
and the United States, immigrant advocacy groups say the president's
proposal falls short of the comprehensive reform they say is needed.

"Extremely disappointing," said Cecilia Munoz, vice president for
policy at the National Council of La Raza. "They're proposing to
invite people to be guest workers without providing any meaningful
opportunity to remain in the United States to become legal permanent
residents."

[Fuck you, parasite.]


In another attempt to placate conservative critics, Bush is proposing
incentives to induce the workers ultimately to return to their home
countries, including allowing them to collect retirement benefits in
their home countries based on Social Security taxes paid here.
ace
2004-01-07 21:30:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Simpson
Has Bush just done something that will cost him re-election in
November?
<snip>

Should we "match voters with willing representatives"?
Polybius
2004-01-07 23:40:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by ace
Post by Dave Simpson
Has Bush just done something that will cost him re-election in
November?
<snip>
Should we "match voters with willing representatives"?
Well, it looks like Bush has the support of Lieberman and
Daschle---so---Bush can count on the mad cow and the crazy jew vote
among the Democrats...:o))))))))
Graphic Queen
2004-01-08 01:18:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Polybius
Post by ace
Post by Dave Simpson
Has Bush just done something that will cost him re-election in
November?
<snip>
Should we "match voters with willing representatives"?
Well, it looks like Bush has the support of Lieberman and
Daschle---so---Bush can count on the mad cow and the crazy jew vote
among the Democrats...:o))))))))
he has the folowing of all of the idiot dems.
Dave Simpson
2004-01-08 23:58:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graphic Queen
he has the folowing of all of the idiot dems.
The Idiot and Vulgar Vote was for Gore, and is behind Dean in 2004.


You stand corrected and arguably educated (you may be uneducable),

Dave Simpson
Graphic Queen
2004-01-09 03:07:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by Graphic Queen
he has the folowing of all of the idiot dems.
The Idiot and Vulgar Vote was for Gore, and is behind Dean in 2004.
You stand corrected and arguably educated (you may be uneducable),
Dave Simpson
BS
Dave Simpson
2004-01-09 00:06:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by ace
Should we "match voters with willing representatives"?
The deck is stacked against the latter, sadly. First these days
comes watching one's wallet first and foremost as a general strategy
of possible damage control.

Wouldn't a tax strike across the USA be a tickler?


Dave Simpson
Polybius
2004-01-07 20:26:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Simpson
Has Bush just done something that will cost him re-election in
November?
This is a fist fight issue, and I hope that the supporters of this Bush
illegal alien amnesty realize that.

This is also a heart attack & stroke issue, and, their will be
politicians who are pushing this amnesty, who will be rolling around on
the floor turning purple or blue after encounters with American citizens.
Polybius
2004-01-08 02:58:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Polybius
Post by Dave Simpson
Has Bush just done something that will cost him re-election in
November?
This is a fist fight issue, and I hope that the supporters of this Bush
illegal alien amnesty realize that.
This is also a heart attack & stroke issue, and, their will be
politicians who are pushing this amnesty, who will be rolling around on
the floor turning purple or blue after encounters with American citizens.
This is a good thing.
Let them go public with it, very public.
Then average people will begin asking questions.
The ole saying about only when a whale surfaces can it be harpooned.
I do believe that Karl Rove will be realizing how bad he fucked up.
He's realizing that we would keep a Republican Congress, and let a Democrat win
the Presidency.
I agree with you. The inside the beltway types, even those whom I
consider friends, really don't have a handle on the anger of the
American people. There are angry white men and angry white women, as
this newsgroup demonstrates daily, who have lost dearly, some have lost
everything because of these open borders policies.

They do not need their wages further depressed by foreign nationals, nor
do they want to pay taxes for the education, healthcare, and social
services required by these foreign nationals.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
http://members.aol.com/faetius451/imm.html#LINKS
http://members.aol.com/faetius451/deck.html
Arnold Wolfcaste
2004-01-08 03:24:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Polybius
Post by Dave Simpson
Has Bush just done something that will cost him re-election in
November?
This is a fist fight issue, and I hope that the supporters of this Bush
illegal alien amnesty realize that.
This is also a heart attack & stroke issue, and, their will be
politicians who are pushing this amnesty, who will be rolling around on
the floor turning purple or blue after encounters with American citizens.
Yup and Bush may lose the election over this. I talked to a few
friends and they said they will be staying home on election day. They
obviously won't be voting for Dean but they won't vote for Bush now.
A lot of conservatives stayed home in 1992 for Bush 1 or voted for
Perot. It may happen again.

A lot of conservatives were holding their breath hoping Bush 2 to be
more like Reagan than Bush 1. We were fooled again by the Bush family.
And the Republican Party snatches defeat from the jaws of victory.

The best thing for Bush will be if the Repubs in the House bottled
this thing up or stop it.
Polybius
2004-01-08 03:46:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arnold Wolfcaste
Post by Polybius
Post by Dave Simpson
Has Bush just done something that will cost him re-election in
November?
This is a fist fight issue, and I hope that the supporters of this Bush
illegal alien amnesty realize that.
This is also a heart attack & stroke issue, and, their will be
politicians who are pushing this amnesty, who will be rolling around on
the floor turning purple or blue after encounters with American citizens.
Yup and Bush may lose the election over this. I talked to a few
friends and they said they will be staying home on election day. They
obviously won't be voting for Dean but they won't vote for Bush now.
A lot of conservatives stayed home in 1992 for Bush 1 or voted for
Perot. It may happen again.
This will get a lot hotter if the American Worker Punching Bag
advertisment is run in North Carolina---and---it probably will be.
Dave Simpson
2004-01-09 20:10:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arnold Wolfcaste
Post by Polybius
Post by Dave Simpson
Has Bush just done something that will cost him re-election in
November?
This is a fist fight issue, and I hope that the supporters of this Bush
illegal alien amnesty realize that.
This is also a heart attack & stroke issue, and, their will be
politicians who are pushing this amnesty, who will be rolling around on
the floor turning purple or blue after encounters with American citizens.
Yup and Bush may lose the election over this. I talked to a few
friends and they said they will be staying home on election day. They
obviously won't be voting for Dean but they won't vote for Bush now.
A lot of conservatives stayed home in 1992 for Bush 1 or voted for
Perot. It may happen again.
A lot of conservatives were holding their breath hoping Bush 2 to be
more like Reagan than Bush 1. We were fooled again by the Bush family.
And the Republican Party snatches defeat from the jaws of victory.
But this could end up being worse than Bob "Third Person" Dole in
1996 being put up against an otherwise-doomed Bill Clinton. (Now THAT
was a stupid move by the Old Guard!)
Post by Arnold Wolfcaste
The best thing for Bush will be if the Repubs in the House bottled
this thing up or stop it.
Yep. It'll also be interesting how the Dims approach this, most
likely taking advantage of this claw-hold or hole in the US's already
hole-ridden immigration-policy armor, and say that just as with the
saner Dims on the Medicare drug benefit: "It's a good start" or "A
useful down payment" (to be improved later, naturally) while the more
rabid Dims gleefully will attack it as "too little, as well as too
late" and "Far from what immigrants [who will vote Dim] deserve, such
as VOTING RIGHTS" ...

As to the GOP, its main division (as Amitai Etzioni calls them so
well, the Whigs and the Tories) may become an issue over this. Most
professed libertarian "economic conservatives" will support this
pro-liberalization move as they would more free-trade or globalist
events, while the more traditionalist, authoritarian "social
conservatives" (which is not limited to the Religious Right) will be
angry and want to -- and hopefully will succeed in an effort to --
scuttle this before it gets anywhere. (Yes, at the risk of their
statements and deeds' being exploited by the Democratic Party along
with the "insufficiency" angle on Bush's proposal.)



Dave Simpson
Iconoclast
2004-01-08 03:53:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Polybius
Post by Dave Simpson
Has Bush just done something that will cost him re-election in
November?
This is a fist fight issue, and I hope that the supporters of this Bush
illegal alien amnesty realize that.
This is also a heart attack & stroke issue, and, their will be
politicians who are pushing this amnesty, who will be rolling around on
the floor turning purple or blue after encounters with American citizens.
Yes. It is a declaration of demographic warfare and ethnic cleansing
against white America by the White House with the full support of both major
political parties. The U.S. Census Bureau has stated with great confidence
that whites will be a minority by 2050, although with this rolling and
ongoing amnesty, it will be more like 2007 or 2010 when whites will be
outnumbered by aliens who will then do what they have always done when they
become the majority, i.e., they will re-enact the Mau Mau Rebellion or the
ZANU PF land seizures in Zimbabwe and proceed to run the whites out of North
America, if they don't just kill us all in death camps. Today marks the day
when the White House feels confident enough as the puppet government for
Vincente Fox that they can declare open borders and open season against
white Americans through an internet based website that will advertise jobs
vacated by laid off American workers and our men and women in the Reserves
who are fighting Bush's wars to protect the borders of Afghanistan and the
oil fields of Iraq. The selling of the U.S. manufacturing base to Red China
will continue, as will the outsourcing of all programming jobs to India.
Welcome to the former U.S. under the leadership of the American equivalent
of the African National Congress.
Dave Simpson
2004-01-09 00:11:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Polybius
This is a fist fight issue, and I hope that the supporters of this Bush
illegal alien amnesty realize that.
The Dims are far worse with the worst of their multiculturalist,
everything-but-traditional-heritage-and-English BS, but still, this
may have been a huge blunder by Dubya. It's going to be interesting
how the Dims finesse this opening (I'm certain not all of them will be
so stupid as to avoid exploiting it).

When even the liberal media admitted generally that Gore lost the
debates to Dubya(!), it gave anti-Gore (patriotic) voters hope, and
gave some Gorons fear. Might Dubya have just done the opposite?

NPR and the clucking-hen idiot-crowd already is a-twitter. I bet
the Dims are going carefully over what statements they will make
(strategically, wanting to push this farther in favor of immigration
laxity, ideally, to have immigrants as well as children [lowering
voting age to 16 or lower] be able to vote).

If the Dims are able to get these "guest workers" able to vote and
make other victories such as lowering the voting age to sixteen, they
will own this nation.


Dave Simpson
Polybius
2004-01-09 02:47:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by Polybius
This is a fist fight issue, and I hope that the supporters of this Bush
illegal alien amnesty realize that.
The Dims are far worse with the worst of their multiculturalist,
everything-but-traditional-heritage-and-English BS, but still, this
may have been a huge blunder by Dubya. It's going to be interesting
how the Dims finesse this opening (I'm certain not all of them will be
so stupid as to avoid exploiting it).
You have a bad habit of confusing Democrats with jews...hell, the yids
have killed liberalism...the only comfort I get is that now many of the
kikes are calling themselves coonservatives & neo-coonservatives and
Republicans...I'm all for more jews playing coonservatives,
neo-coonservaties and Republicans on TV...:o)))))))))
JoettaB
2004-01-09 03:58:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Polybius
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by Polybius
This is a fist fight issue, and I hope that the supporters of this Bush
illegal alien amnesty realize that.
The Dims are far worse with the worst of their multiculturalist,
everything-but-traditional-heritage-and-English BS, but still, this
may have been a huge blunder by Dubya. It's going to be interesting
how the Dims finesse this opening (I'm certain not all of them will be
so stupid as to avoid exploiting it).
You have a bad habit of confusing Democrats with jews...hell, the yids
have killed liberalism...the only comfort I get is that now many of the
kikes are calling themselves coonservatives & neo-coonservatives and
Republicans...I'm all for more jews playing coonservatives,
neo-coonservaties and Republicans on TV...:o)))))))))
Oh, hell, what is it with you and the jew-bashing. Maybe you should get
together with BroJack since he's up for the minority and female bashing...
Polybius
2004-01-09 04:29:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by JoettaB
Post by Polybius
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by Polybius
This is a fist fight issue, and I hope that the supporters of this Bush
illegal alien amnesty realize that.
The Dims are far worse with the worst of their multiculturalist,
everything-but-traditional-heritage-and-English BS, but still, this
may have been a huge blunder by Dubya. It's going to be interesting
how the Dims finesse this opening (I'm certain not all of them will be
so stupid as to avoid exploiting it).
You have a bad habit of confusing Democrats with jews...hell, the yids
have killed liberalism...the only comfort I get is that now many of the
kikes are calling themselves coonservatives & neo-coonservatives and
Republicans...I'm all for more jews playing coonservatives,
neo-coonservaties and Republicans on TV...:o)))))))))
Oh, hell, what is it with you and the jew-bashing. Maybe you should get
together with BroJack since he's up for the minority and female bashing...
Question: What is the leading cause of anti-semitism?

Answer: jews LOL :o))))))))))))))))))))))))
Dave Simpson
2004-01-09 20:03:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by JoettaB
Oh, hell, what is it with you and the jew-bashing. Maybe you should get
together with BroJack since he's up for the minority and female bashing...
And this time I thought there wasn't going to be any, though I was
still anticipating it, and was curious when I clicked on the link to
his reply...


Dave Simpson
Dave Simpson
2004-01-09 20:02:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Polybius
You have a bad habit of confusing Democrats with jews
You have a bad habit of commingling and confusing everything with "the Jews"!


Dave Simpson
Xeno Chauvin
2004-01-08 00:18:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Simpson
Has Bush just done something that will cost him re-election in
November?
I guess this will be the first time in 42 years I won't vote
for ANY of the idiots running for El Presidente!
Let's see how well the Repubnicants do with out the
ol' native born non-hispanic staying home.
This time the choice seems to be between fecal matter and shit
but it ALL smells the same!
Xeno
Graphic Queen
2004-01-08 01:19:57 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 00:18:05 GMT, "Xeno Chauvin"
Post by Xeno Chauvin
Post by Dave Simpson
Has Bush just done something that will cost him re-election in
November?
I guess this will be the first time in 42 years I won't vote
for ANY of the idiots running for El Presidente!
Let's see how well the Repubnicants do with out the
ol' native born non-hispanic staying home.
This time the choice seems to be between fecal matter and shit
but it ALL smells the same!
Xeno
You got that right. I already UNregistered myself because I know that
this country has lost. They will just continue to give our country
away. I am like many others and do believe that citizens patroling the
border is all that has any hope. Going out tomorrw again with some
friends. Can't wait to scare some more ignorant Mexicans.

GQ
kitty
2004-01-08 01:42:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graphic Queen
On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 00:18:05 GMT, "Xeno Chauvin"
Post by Xeno Chauvin
Post by Dave Simpson
Has Bush just done something that will cost him re-election in
November?
I guess this will be the first time in 42 years I won't vote
for ANY of the idiots running for El Presidente!
Let's see how well the Repubnicants do with out the
ol' native born non-hispanic staying home.
This time the choice seems to be between fecal matter and shit
but it ALL smells the same!
Xeno
You got that right. I already UNregistered myself because I know that
this country has lost. They will just continue to give our country
away. I am like many others and do believe that citizens patroling the
border is all that has any hope. Going out tomorrw again with some
friends. Can't wait to scare some more ignorant Mexicans.
GQ
Thank you GQ---we wish you well--and scare those hepatitis, shitinfested,
scab crusted cretins back to their toilet.....

wish I were there--but I'm afraid I would do more! ;}

kitty I
Graphic Queen
2004-01-08 02:19:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by kitty
Post by Graphic Queen
On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 00:18:05 GMT, "Xeno Chauvin"
Post by Xeno Chauvin
Post by Dave Simpson
Has Bush just done something that will cost him re-election in
November?
I guess this will be the first time in 42 years I won't vote
for ANY of the idiots running for El Presidente!
Let's see how well the Repubnicants do with out the
ol' native born non-hispanic staying home.
This time the choice seems to be between fecal matter and shit
but it ALL smells the same!
Xeno
You got that right. I already UNregistered myself because I know that
this country has lost. They will just continue to give our country
away. I am like many others and do believe that citizens patroling the
border is all that has any hope. Going out tomorrw again with some
friends. Can't wait to scare some more ignorant Mexicans.
GQ
Thank you GQ---we wish you well--and scare those hepatitis, shitinfested,
scab crusted cretins back to their toilet.....
wish I were there--but I'm afraid I would do more! ;}
kitty I
It is hard to not do more. But it is still fun scaring the shit out of
them. And these assholes put their children in danger by crossing the
border illegally and yet people in this country have the nerve to say
that they have family values. yeah right!!!

GQ
tom
2004-01-08 01:41:45 UTC
Permalink
So it has finally dawned on you that the Republicans
are bought off by the huge corporations? The great
majority of Republican voters are too ignorant to realize
that they are voting against their interests.

At least the Dems pretend not to be bought off. And
they dont have to do much more than pretend in
large part because of the dimwitted GOP voters
voting against their interests.
kitty
2004-01-08 01:50:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by tom
So it has finally dawned on you that the Republicans
are bought off by the huge corporations? The great
majority of Republican voters are too ignorant to realize
that they are voting against their interests.
At least the Dems pretend not to be bought off. And
they dont have to do much more than pretend in
large part because of the dimwitted GOP voters
voting against their interests.
I don't like any repub OR Dem...............as far as I'm concerned ALL
elected officials and politicians are corrupt and it will take a lot to
prove otherwise to me.....


REVOLUTION anyone ????

kitty I
Graphic Queen
2004-01-08 02:19:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by kitty
Post by tom
So it has finally dawned on you that the Republicans
are bought off by the huge corporations? The great
majority of Republican voters are too ignorant to realize
that they are voting against their interests.
At least the Dems pretend not to be bought off. And
they dont have to do much more than pretend in
large part because of the dimwitted GOP voters
voting against their interests.
I don't like any repub OR Dem...............as far as I'm concerned ALL
elected officials and politicians are corrupt and it will take a lot to
prove otherwise to me.....
REVOLUTION anyone ????
kitty I
I am ready and more people are also ready.
Iconoclast
2004-01-08 04:03:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by kitty
Post by tom
So it has finally dawned on you that the Republicans
are bought off by the huge corporations? The great
majority of Republican voters are too ignorant to realize
that they are voting against their interests.
At least the Dems pretend not to be bought off. And
they dont have to do much more than pretend in
large part because of the dimwitted GOP voters
voting against their interests.
I don't like any repub OR Dem...............as far as I'm concerned ALL
elected officials and politicians are corrupt and it will take a lot to
prove otherwise to me.....
REVOLUTION anyone ????
kitty I
On some talk radio in Colorado, it is certainly being suggested that our own
government has become the worst enemy of the American people and that we
might as well fight this from a position of strength before the invaders
outnumber us. Time is short.
Graphic Queen
2004-01-08 14:20:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Iconoclast
Post by kitty
Post by tom
So it has finally dawned on you that the Republicans
are bought off by the huge corporations? The great
majority of Republican voters are too ignorant to realize
that they are voting against their interests.
At least the Dems pretend not to be bought off. And
they dont have to do much more than pretend in
large part because of the dimwitted GOP voters
voting against their interests.
I don't like any repub OR Dem...............as far as I'm concerned ALL
elected officials and politicians are corrupt and it will take a lot to
prove otherwise to me.....
REVOLUTION anyone ????
kitty I
On some talk radio in Colorado, it is certainly being suggested that our own
government has become the worst enemy of the American people and that we
might as well fight this from a position of strength before the invaders
outnumber us. Time is short.
You got that right. I am off to do some more patrolling of the
borders. Love scaring those illegals.
JoettaB
2004-01-09 03:53:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graphic Queen
Post by Iconoclast
Post by kitty
Post by tom
So it has finally dawned on you that the Republicans
are bought off by the huge corporations? The great
majority of Republican voters are too ignorant to realize
that they are voting against their interests.
At least the Dems pretend not to be bought off. And
they dont have to do much more than pretend in
large part because of the dimwitted GOP voters
voting against their interests.
I don't like any repub OR Dem...............as far as I'm concerned ALL
elected officials and politicians are corrupt and it will take a lot to
prove otherwise to me.....
REVOLUTION anyone ????
kitty I
On some talk radio in Colorado, it is certainly being suggested that our own
government has become the worst enemy of the American people and that we
might as well fight this from a position of strength before the invaders
outnumber us. Time is short.
You got that right. I am off to do some more patrolling of the
borders. Love scaring those illegals.
As you should be. Put up fences and land mines BEFORE they get into the
country and have legal resident children. Also, you might want to consider
patrolling the Canadian border as well... they did send us that mad cow.
Graphic Queen
2004-01-09 05:23:16 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 22:53:56 -0500, "JoettaB"
Post by JoettaB
Post by Graphic Queen
Post by Iconoclast
Post by kitty
Post by tom
So it has finally dawned on you that the Republicans
are bought off by the huge corporations? The great
majority of Republican voters are too ignorant to realize
that they are voting against their interests.
At least the Dems pretend not to be bought off. And
they dont have to do much more than pretend in
large part because of the dimwitted GOP voters
voting against their interests.
I don't like any repub OR Dem...............as far as I'm concerned ALL
elected officials and politicians are corrupt and it will take a lot to
prove otherwise to me.....
REVOLUTION anyone ????
kitty I
On some talk radio in Colorado, it is certainly being suggested that our
own
Post by Graphic Queen
Post by Iconoclast
government has become the worst enemy of the American people and that we
might as well fight this from a position of strength before the invaders
outnumber us. Time is short.
You got that right. I am off to do some more patrolling of the
borders. Love scaring those illegals.
As you should be. Put up fences and land mines BEFORE they get into the
country and have legal resident children. Also, you might want to consider
patrolling the Canadian border as well... they did send us that mad cow.
I don't live close to the Canadian border but the farmer brought the
cow into our country himself. Canada didn't let it run over the
border.

GQ
JoettaB
2004-01-09 06:08:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graphic Queen
On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 22:53:56 -0500, "JoettaB"
Post by JoettaB
Post by Graphic Queen
Post by Iconoclast
Post by kitty
Post by tom
So it has finally dawned on you that the Republicans
are bought off by the huge corporations? The great
majority of Republican voters are too ignorant to realize
that they are voting against their interests.
At least the Dems pretend not to be bought off. And
they dont have to do much more than pretend in
large part because of the dimwitted GOP voters
voting against their interests.
I don't like any repub OR Dem...............as far as I'm concerned ALL
elected officials and politicians are corrupt and it will take a lot to
prove otherwise to me.....
REVOLUTION anyone ????
kitty I
On some talk radio in Colorado, it is certainly being suggested that our
own
Post by Graphic Queen
Post by Iconoclast
government has become the worst enemy of the American people and that we
might as well fight this from a position of strength before the invaders
outnumber us. Time is short.
You got that right. I am off to do some more patrolling of the
borders. Love scaring those illegals.
As you should be. Put up fences and land mines BEFORE they get into the
country and have legal resident children. Also, you might want to consider
patrolling the Canadian border as well... they did send us that mad cow.
I don't live close to the Canadian border but the farmer brought the
cow into our country himself. Canada didn't let it run over the
border.
GQ
LOL ... that's true, but I have the feeling that farmers do the same with
our neighbors from the south. This is a time to protect both borders. Too
many people pass through Canada on the way to our country... many of which
do not originate from Canada.
Graphic Queen
2004-01-09 08:56:19 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 9 Jan 2004 01:08:31 -0500, "JoettaB"
Post by Iconoclast
Post by Graphic Queen
On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 22:53:56 -0500, "JoettaB"
Post by JoettaB
Post by Graphic Queen
Post by Iconoclast
Post by kitty
Post by tom
So it has finally dawned on you that the Republicans
are bought off by the huge corporations? The great
majority of Republican voters are too ignorant to realize
that they are voting against their interests.
At least the Dems pretend not to be bought off. And
they dont have to do much more than pretend in
large part because of the dimwitted GOP voters
voting against their interests.
I don't like any repub OR Dem...............as far as I'm concerned
ALL
Post by Graphic Queen
Post by JoettaB
Post by Graphic Queen
Post by Iconoclast
Post by kitty
elected officials and politicians are corrupt and it will take a lot
to
Post by Graphic Queen
Post by JoettaB
Post by Graphic Queen
Post by Iconoclast
Post by kitty
prove otherwise to me.....
REVOLUTION anyone ????
kitty I
On some talk radio in Colorado, it is certainly being suggested that
our
Post by Graphic Queen
Post by JoettaB
own
Post by Graphic Queen
Post by Iconoclast
government has become the worst enemy of the American people and that
we
Post by Graphic Queen
Post by JoettaB
Post by Graphic Queen
Post by Iconoclast
might as well fight this from a position of strength before the
invaders
Post by Graphic Queen
Post by JoettaB
Post by Graphic Queen
Post by Iconoclast
outnumber us. Time is short.
You got that right. I am off to do some more patrolling of the
borders. Love scaring those illegals.
As you should be. Put up fences and land mines BEFORE they get into the
country and have legal resident children. Also, you might want to
consider
Post by Graphic Queen
Post by JoettaB
patrolling the Canadian border as well... they did send us that mad cow.
I don't live close to the Canadian border but the farmer brought the
cow into our country himself. Canada didn't let it run over the
border.
GQ
LOL ... that's true, but I have the feeling that farmers do the same with
our neighbors from the south. This is a time to protect both borders. Too
many people pass through Canada on the way to our country... many of which
do not originate from Canada.
You are right once again. I would like to see all borders protected
but, alas, our government has let us know for sure now that they have
no intention of doing such. Damn them once again!!!!

GQ
Agathena
2004-01-09 06:17:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by JoettaB
Post by Graphic Queen
Post by Iconoclast
Post by kitty
Post by tom
So it has finally dawned on you that the Republicans
are bought off by the huge corporations? The great
majority of Republican voters are too ignorant to realize
that they are voting against their interests.
At least the Dems pretend not to be bought off. And
they dont have to do much more than pretend in
large part because of the dimwitted GOP voters
voting against their interests.
I don't like any repub OR Dem...............as far as I'm concerned ALL
elected officials and politicians are corrupt and it will take a lot to
prove otherwise to me.....
REVOLUTION anyone ????
kitty I
On some talk radio in Colorado, it is certainly being suggested that our
own
Post by Graphic Queen
Post by Iconoclast
government has become the worst enemy of the American people and that we
might as well fight this from a position of strength before the invaders
outnumber us. Time is short.
You got that right. I am off to do some more patrolling of the
borders. Love scaring those illegals.
As you should be. Put up fences and land mines BEFORE they get into the
country and have legal resident children. Also, you might want to consider
patrolling the Canadian border as well... they did send us that mad cow.
Yes, I agree. The Canadian border need re-inforcements to
keep out the Yanks who are clamouring for residency here
where I live. They are gluttons for our real estate.
They claim they want a safe haven. I can't figure out why.
Is there something wrong going on down there in the American
dreamland?
JoettaB
2004-01-09 14:38:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Agathena
Post by JoettaB
Post by Graphic Queen
Post by Iconoclast
Post by kitty
Post by tom
So it has finally dawned on you that the Republicans
are bought off by the huge corporations? The great
majority of Republican voters are too ignorant to realize
that they are voting against their interests.
At least the Dems pretend not to be bought off. And
they dont have to do much more than pretend in
large part because of the dimwitted GOP voters
voting against their interests.
I don't like any repub OR Dem...............as far as I'm concerned ALL
elected officials and politicians are corrupt and it will take a lot to
prove otherwise to me.....
REVOLUTION anyone ????
kitty I
On some talk radio in Colorado, it is certainly being suggested that our
own
Post by Graphic Queen
Post by Iconoclast
government has become the worst enemy of the American people and that we
might as well fight this from a position of strength before the invaders
outnumber us. Time is short.
You got that right. I am off to do some more patrolling of the
borders. Love scaring those illegals.
As you should be. Put up fences and land mines BEFORE they get into the
country and have legal resident children. Also, you might want to consider
patrolling the Canadian border as well... they did send us that mad cow.
Yes, I agree. The Canadian border need re-inforcements to
keep out the Yanks who are clamouring for residency here
where I live. They are gluttons for our real estate.
They claim they want a safe haven. I can't figure out why.
Is there something wrong going on down there in the American
dreamland?
Yes, you are right on that. My husband's family used to own a house in
Canada, which was sold... I don't know... about a year or two ago. Perhaps
you should get your government to enforce migration that direction as well.
But, as a P.S., I am not saying that people cannot come across either border
legally for visits, etc. It just needs to be enforced that they must return
when their time is up unless they are willing to become citizens.
Dave Simpson
2004-01-09 00:03:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by kitty
I don't like any repub OR Dem...............as far as I'm concerned ALL
elected officials and politicians are corrupt and it will take a lot to
prove otherwise to me.....
Well, it has been true that the farthest-left parts of the USA are
cesspools and liabilities, not assets, to the USA, cancer pockets of
toxic waste and scum, and better Americans would be relieved if a
nuclear attack on the USA only struck those cancer pockets of the
worst of Cyanide Nation.

However, also relieving would be attacks on the lobbyist-lairs on K
Street.


Dave Simpson
Graphic Queen
2004-01-09 03:08:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by kitty
I don't like any repub OR Dem...............as far as I'm concerned ALL
elected officials and politicians are corrupt and it will take a lot to
prove otherwise to me.....
Well, it has been true that the farthest-left parts of the USA are
cesspools and liabilities, not assets, to the USA, cancer pockets of
toxic waste and scum, and better Americans would be relieved if a
nuclear attack on the USA only struck those cancer pockets of the
worst of Cyanide Nation.
However, also relieving would be attacks on the lobbyist-lairs on K
Street.
Dave Simpson
Funny how you can not admit that republicans are as dirty as the dems
which proves you know nothing baout politics but like to act like you
do.
JoettaB
2004-01-09 03:58:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graphic Queen
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by kitty
I don't like any repub OR Dem...............as far as I'm concerned ALL
elected officials and politicians are corrupt and it will take a lot to
prove otherwise to me.....
Well, it has been true that the farthest-left parts of the USA are
cesspools and liabilities, not assets, to the USA, cancer pockets of
toxic waste and scum, and better Americans would be relieved if a
nuclear attack on the USA only struck those cancer pockets of the
worst of Cyanide Nation.
However, also relieving would be attacks on the lobbyist-lairs on K
Street.
Dave Simpson
Funny how you can not admit that republicans are as dirty as the dems
which proves you know nothing baout politics but like to act like you
do.
So... are you a green, independent, or... something else?
Graphic Queen
2004-01-09 05:22:31 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 22:58:06 -0500, "JoettaB"
Post by JoettaB
Post by Graphic Queen
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by kitty
I don't like any repub OR Dem...............as far as I'm concerned ALL
elected officials and politicians are corrupt and it will take a lot to
prove otherwise to me.....
Well, it has been true that the farthest-left parts of the USA are
cesspools and liabilities, not assets, to the USA, cancer pockets of
toxic waste and scum, and better Americans would be relieved if a
nuclear attack on the USA only struck those cancer pockets of the
worst of Cyanide Nation.
However, also relieving would be attacks on the lobbyist-lairs on K
Street.
Dave Simpson
Funny how you can not admit that republicans are as dirty as the dems
which proves you know nothing baout politics but like to act like you
do.
So... are you a green, independent, or... something else?
Independent
JoettaB
2004-01-09 06:07:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graphic Queen
On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 22:58:06 -0500, "JoettaB"
Post by JoettaB
Post by Graphic Queen
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by kitty
I don't like any repub OR Dem...............as far as I'm concerned ALL
elected officials and politicians are corrupt and it will take a lot to
prove otherwise to me.....
Well, it has been true that the farthest-left parts of the USA are
cesspools and liabilities, not assets, to the USA, cancer pockets of
toxic waste and scum, and better Americans would be relieved if a
nuclear attack on the USA only struck those cancer pockets of the
worst of Cyanide Nation.
However, also relieving would be attacks on the lobbyist-lairs on K
Street.
Dave Simpson
Funny how you can not admit that republicans are as dirty as the dems
which proves you know nothing baout politics but like to act like you
do.
So... are you a green, independent, or... something else?
Independent
hmmmm... you may want to consider that for 2004 a vote for anyone other than
the strongest contender will be just like voting for Bush. It may be
different in other years, but unless you're willing to do four more years of
Bush, you may want to veer a bit. Of course, I've always had hope for the
Independent party. Unfortunately, it just takes too damned much money to win
an election these days.
Graphic Queen
2004-01-09 08:55:10 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 9 Jan 2004 01:07:05 -0500, "JoettaB"
Post by JoettaB
Post by Graphic Queen
On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 22:58:06 -0500, "JoettaB"
Post by JoettaB
Post by Graphic Queen
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by kitty
I don't like any repub OR Dem...............as far as I'm concerned
ALL
Post by Graphic Queen
Post by JoettaB
Post by Graphic Queen
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by kitty
elected officials and politicians are corrupt and it will take a lot
to
Post by Graphic Queen
Post by JoettaB
Post by Graphic Queen
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by kitty
prove otherwise to me.....
Well, it has been true that the farthest-left parts of the USA are
cesspools and liabilities, not assets, to the USA, cancer pockets of
toxic waste and scum, and better Americans would be relieved if a
nuclear attack on the USA only struck those cancer pockets of the
worst of Cyanide Nation.
However, also relieving would be attacks on the lobbyist-lairs on K
Street.
Dave Simpson
Funny how you can not admit that republicans are as dirty as the dems
which proves you know nothing baout politics but like to act like you
do.
So... are you a green, independent, or... something else?
Independent
hmmmm... you may want to consider that for 2004 a vote for anyone other than
the strongest contender will be just like voting for Bush. It may be
different in other years, but unless you're willing to do four more years of
Bush, you may want to veer a bit. Of course, I've always had hope for the
Independent party. Unfortunately, it just takes too damned much money to win
an election these days.
You are so right about that. I would love to see someone make it with
an independent party but the damn dems and repugs both have a
stranglehold on everything. Damn them!!!

GQ
JoettaB
2004-01-09 14:35:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graphic Queen
On Fri, 9 Jan 2004 01:07:05 -0500, "JoettaB"
Post by JoettaB
Post by Graphic Queen
On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 22:58:06 -0500, "JoettaB"
Post by JoettaB
Post by Graphic Queen
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by kitty
I don't like any repub OR Dem...............as far as I'm concerned
ALL
Post by Graphic Queen
Post by JoettaB
Post by Graphic Queen
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by kitty
elected officials and politicians are corrupt and it will take a lot
to
Post by Graphic Queen
Post by JoettaB
Post by Graphic Queen
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by kitty
prove otherwise to me.....
Well, it has been true that the farthest-left parts of the USA are
cesspools and liabilities, not assets, to the USA, cancer pockets of
toxic waste and scum, and better Americans would be relieved if a
nuclear attack on the USA only struck those cancer pockets of the
worst of Cyanide Nation.
However, also relieving would be attacks on the lobbyist-lairs on K
Street.
Dave Simpson
Funny how you can not admit that republicans are as dirty as the dems
which proves you know nothing baout politics but like to act like you
do.
So... are you a green, independent, or... something else?
Independent
hmmmm... you may want to consider that for 2004 a vote for anyone other than
the strongest contender will be just like voting for Bush. It may be
different in other years, but unless you're willing to do four more years of
Bush, you may want to veer a bit. Of course, I've always had hope for the
Independent party. Unfortunately, it just takes too damned much money to win
an election these days.
You are so right about that. I would love to see someone make it with
an independent party but the damn dems and repugs both have a
stranglehold on everything. Damn them!!!
GQ
Well, it seems to me that after gaining national recognition, the smaller
parties should embark upon getting the smaller offices--state level and
congressional--filled as much as possible with their candidates before they
will begin having a shot at the Presidency. But... maybe they figure the
opposite.
Dave Simpson
2004-01-09 20:00:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by JoettaB
hmmmm... you may want to consider that for 2004 a vote for anyone other than
the strongest contender will be just like voting for Bush. It may be
different in other years, but unless you're willing to do four more years of
Bush, you may want to veer a bit. Of course, I've always had hope for the
Independent party. Unfortunately, it just takes too damned much money to win
an election these days.
Electoral-related districts such as Congressional districts are
gerrymandered to best secure incumbency, and the ballot access and
other such laws are stacked against independent and third-party
candidates. The latest "election campaign finance reform" laws, in
which controlling money may be legitimate, but prohibiting certain
kinds of political speech(!) is obviously unconstitutional, is another
means by which those who are incumbents or have gotten a good lead (or
their major party's nomination) are additionally protected against
"troublesome" outsiders.

In fact, despite all the scorn from the likes of the Wall Street
Journal editorial staff and those inside the Beltway, proportional
representation with a sensible threshold (minimum percentage to get at
least one seat) in those bodies which are meant to be popular as well
as democratic in their nature, makes total sense. The first step
toward achieving it, and necessary in any case, is demolition of the
"stacked deck" setup that currently exists. Why in the age of abuse
of the courts and left-wing judicial activism we haven't seen a valid
lawsuit seeking elimination of discriminatory electoral laws on 14th
amendment grounds is a large riddle.


Proportional Representation --

far left or "progressive" oriented [sic; radical] site


http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/polit/damy/prlib.htm


(I've owned the first edition of D. Amy's book for several years.)


Dave Simpson
JoettaB
2004-01-09 21:53:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by JoettaB
hmmmm... you may want to consider that for 2004 a vote for anyone other than
the strongest contender will be just like voting for Bush. It may be
different in other years, but unless you're willing to do four more years of
Bush, you may want to veer a bit. Of course, I've always had hope for the
Independent party. Unfortunately, it just takes too damned much money to win
an election these days.
Electoral-related districts such as Congressional districts are
gerrymandered to best secure incumbency, and the ballot access and
other such laws are stacked against independent and third-party
candidates. The latest "election campaign finance reform" laws, in
which controlling money may be legitimate, but prohibiting certain
kinds of political speech(!) is obviously unconstitutional, is another
means by which those who are incumbents or have gotten a good lead (or
their major party's nomination) are additionally protected against
"troublesome" outsiders.
In fact, despite all the scorn from the likes of the Wall Street
Journal editorial staff and those inside the Beltway, proportional
representation with a sensible threshold (minimum percentage to get at
least one seat) in those bodies which are meant to be popular as well
as democratic in their nature, makes total sense. The first step
toward achieving it, and necessary in any case, is demolition of the
"stacked deck" setup that currently exists. Why in the age of abuse
of the courts and left-wing judicial activism we haven't seen a valid
lawsuit seeking elimination of discriminatory electoral laws on 14th
amendment grounds is a large riddle.
You make some good points. I have talked with some Australian posters who
are also seeking something similar.
Post by Dave Simpson
Proportional Representation --
far left or "progressive" oriented [sic; radical] site
http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/polit/damy/prlib.htm
(I've owned the first edition of D. Amy's book for several years.)
Dave Simpson
Dave Simpson
2004-01-10 02:05:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by JoettaB
You make some good points. I have talked with some Australian posters who
are also seeking something similar.
Something needs to be done and may well be done eventually, though
it is likely to involve extremist political groups. As it is, I still
sign petitions by the Greens here where I live whenever they seek
better ballot access, because it's the right thing to seek, and for me
to do.


Dave Simpson
JoettaB
2004-01-10 05:54:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by JoettaB
You make some good points. I have talked with some Australian posters who
are also seeking something similar.
Something needs to be done and may well be done eventually, though
it is likely to involve extremist political groups. As it is, I still
sign petitions by the Greens here where I live whenever they seek
better ballot access, because it's the right thing to seek, and for me
to do.
Dave Simpson
You lost all your credentials when you started name-calling in the previous
posts, rather than being intelligent enough to recognize that people don't
always need to tow the party line.
Graphic Queen
2004-01-10 15:31:13 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 00:54:15 -0500, "JoettaB"
Post by JoettaB
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by JoettaB
You make some good points. I have talked with some Australian posters
who
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by JoettaB
are also seeking something similar.
Something needs to be done and may well be done eventually, though
it is likely to involve extremist political groups. As it is, I still
sign petitions by the Greens here where I live whenever they seek
better ballot access, because it's the right thing to seek, and for me
to do.
Dave Simpson
You lost all your credentials when you started name-calling in the previous
posts, rather than being intelligent enough to recognize that people don't
always need to tow the party line.
Yep, he is nothing but another ditto head who doesn't think for
themselves but instead believes only what they think and hear from
Rush and the other hate mongers out there.

GQ
Dave Simpson
2004-01-10 20:08:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graphic Queen
Yep, he is nothing but another ditto head who doesn't think for
themselves but instead believes only what they think and hear from
Rush and the other hate mongers out there.
Just like you and your fellow ignoramuses who can't, don't, and
won't think, and have nothing of value to state. All you have left is
imagination and projection(!).


Dave Simpson
Iconoclast
2004-01-10 21:15:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by Graphic Queen
Yep, he is nothing but another ditto head who doesn't think for
themselves but instead believes only what they think and hear from
Rush and the other hate mongers out there.
Just like you and your fellow ignoramuses who can't, don't, and
won't think, and have nothing of value to state. All you have left is
imagination and projection(!).
Dave Simpson
"Ignoramuses" seems to be a popular word among the pro-illegal alien
cheerleaders, anarchists, and communists. It must be comforting for people
such as yourself to portray those who are for law and order, the rule of
law, and an orderly control and flow of immigrants into the U.S. as being
ignorant. I would like to point out that ignorant people don't figure out
how to get on usenet in order to discuss current events and important issues
of the day. The anarchists and illegal alien cheerleaders would like to
believe that those who oppose turning the United States into a Latin
American dictatorship are morons, while those who support the breakdown of
the rule of law and the massive destruction of wetlands, farmland and the
environment through overpopulation are part of the elite intelligentsia.

It was Western scientists who put men in space and developed vaccines for
polio, smallpox, yellow fever, malaria, tetanus, typhoid fever and other
diseases. Western science developed computers, transistors, jet engines,
and television. Western inventors developed the steam engine, airplanes,
and railroads. And you confidently portray those who have no desire to
fill our nation with Somali or Mexican illegal immigrants as ignorant. What
great contributions to mankind have the Bantu people given us?
Dave Simpson
2004-01-10 17:31:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by JoettaB
You lost all your credentials when you started name-calling in the previous
posts, rather than being intelligent enough to recognize that people don't
always need to tow the party line.
You're wrong again. Next time, don't lose credibility and post
various forms of easily-refuted material and you'll do better when it
comes to criticism from respectable people.


Dave Simpson
JoettaB
2004-01-10 17:49:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by JoettaB
You lost all your credentials when you started name-calling in the previous
posts, rather than being intelligent enough to recognize that people don't
always need to tow the party line.
You're wrong again. Next time, don't lose credibility and post
various forms of easily-refuted material and you'll do better when it
comes to criticism from respectable people.
Dave Simpson
And you should, too. Only I won't be reading it because I have PLONKED your
lame ass.
Dave Simpson
2004-01-10 22:28:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by JoettaB
Post by Dave Simpson
You're wrong again. Next time, don't lose credibility and post
various forms of easily-refuted material and you'll do better when it
comes to criticism from respectable people.
And you should, too. Only I won't be reading it because I have PLONKED your
lame ass.
What's pathetic is you probably believe what you have been writing.


Dave Simpson
Graphic Queen
2004-01-10 19:33:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by JoettaB
You lost all your credentials when you started name-calling in the previous
posts, rather than being intelligent enough to recognize that people don't
always need to tow the party line.
You're wrong again. Next time, don't lose credibility and post
various forms of easily-refuted material and you'll do better when it
comes to criticism from respectable people.
Dave Simpson
You have yet to post anything of substance Dave. But keep trying.
Maybe when you actually learn something about the real world and
politics you might see the error of your ways. I doubt it though
because anyone that spouts the rhetoric that you do proves that you
have never done any research and depends on his "masters" to tell him
how to think and act.

GQ
Dave Simpson
2004-01-10 22:29:20 UTC
Permalink
Graphic Queen
Post by Graphic Queen
You have yet to post anything of substance Dave. But keep trying.
Maybe when you actually learn something about the real world and
politics you might see the error of your ways. I doubt it though
because anyone that spouts the rhetoric that you do proves that you
have never done any research and depends on his "masters" to tell him
how to think and act.
Such dishonesty, mental illness, illogic, and likely projection all
remains unbecoming of you.

For shame, GQ. For shame.


Dave Simpson

Dave Simpson
2004-01-09 19:53:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graphic Queen
Post by JoettaB
So... are you a green, independent, or... something else?
Independent
Sadly, this is likely, as intelligent independent voters such as I
are vastly outnumbered in the "independent" category by ignorant youth
who have simply not commited themselves to true or "official"
partisanship as well as not yet grown up or learned more about the
real world. (Meanwhile, they tend to vote Dim in preference to the
icky, old-fashioned "far right" [sic] GOP.)

One of the easiest places to encounter independent voters is to look
for extra-starry eyes and foolish-looking faces among students on
college campuses, for example.


Dave Simpson
Graphic Queen
2004-01-10 00:33:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by Graphic Queen
Post by JoettaB
So... are you a green, independent, or... something else?
Independent
Sadly, this is likely, as intelligent independent voters such as I
are vastly outnumbered in the "independent" category by ignorant youth
who have simply not commited themselves to true or "official"
partisanship as well as not yet grown up or learned more about the
real world. (Meanwhile, they tend to vote Dim in preference to the
icky, old-fashioned "far right" [sic] GOP.)
One of the easiest places to encounter independent voters is to look
for extra-starry eyes and foolish-looking faces among students on
college campuses, for example.
Dave Simpson
You have an ego problem dude and are not as smart as you think. I am
not "youth" as you put it and am probably older than you in fact. But
go ahead with your delusional thinking anyway. It does add some humor
to this newsgroup.

GQ
JoettaB
2004-01-10 05:55:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graphic Queen
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by Graphic Queen
Post by JoettaB
So... are you a green, independent, or... something else?
Independent
Sadly, this is likely, as intelligent independent voters such as I
are vastly outnumbered in the "independent" category by ignorant youth
who have simply not commited themselves to true or "official"
partisanship as well as not yet grown up or learned more about the
real world. (Meanwhile, they tend to vote Dim in preference to the
icky, old-fashioned "far right" [sic] GOP.)
One of the easiest places to encounter independent voters is to look
for extra-starry eyes and foolish-looking faces among students on
college campuses, for example.
Dave Simpson
You have an ego problem dude and are not as smart as you think. I am
not "youth" as you put it and am probably older than you in fact. But
go ahead with your delusional thinking anyway. It does add some humor
to this newsgroup.
GQ
You have to actually have some intelligence to have an ego. Simpson doesn't.
But he's certainly delusional.
Graphic Queen
2004-01-10 15:33:07 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 00:55:21 -0500, "JoettaB"
Post by JoettaB
Post by Graphic Queen
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by Graphic Queen
Post by JoettaB
So... are you a green, independent, or... something else?
Independent
Sadly, this is likely, as intelligent independent voters such as I
are vastly outnumbered in the "independent" category by ignorant youth
who have simply not commited themselves to true or "official"
partisanship as well as not yet grown up or learned more about the
real world. (Meanwhile, they tend to vote Dim in preference to the
icky, old-fashioned "far right" [sic] GOP.)
One of the easiest places to encounter independent voters is to look
for extra-starry eyes and foolish-looking faces among students on
college campuses, for example.
Dave Simpson
You have an ego problem dude and are not as smart as you think. I am
not "youth" as you put it and am probably older than you in fact. But
go ahead with your delusional thinking anyway. It does add some humor
to this newsgroup.
GQ
You have to actually have some intelligence to have an ego. Simpson doesn't.
But he's certainly delusional.
Yeah, youare probably right Joetta.
Dave Simpson
2004-01-10 20:09:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graphic Queen
Post by JoettaB
You have to actually have some intelligence to have an ego. Simpson doesn't.
But he's certainly delusional.
Yeah, youare probably right Joetta.
You might believe so, if you're in pathetic shape, but that's your problem.


Dave Simpson
Dave Simpson
2004-01-10 17:34:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by JoettaB
You have to actually have some intelligence to have an ego. Simpson doesn't.
But he's certainly delusional.
When you post made-up dreck like this, you add the comical to the
pathological side of so much liberalism and what it amounts to these
days.


Dave Simpson
Dave Simpson
2004-01-10 17:33:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graphic Queen
You have an ego problem dude and are not as smart as you think.
I am more than smart enough to realize where my IQ really lies and
what is above as well as below that level.
Post by Graphic Queen
I am
not "youth" as you put it and am probably older than you in fact. But
go ahead with your delusional thinking anyway. It does add some humor
to this newsgroup.
Possibly, if you're mentally ill, but it's no "obligation" of mine.

Everyone with a working brain knows that many independent voters are
college kids and other young people, often ignorant of the real world
and still as liberal as they are immature.


Dave Simpson
Dave Simpson
2004-01-09 19:49:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graphic Queen
Funny how you can not admit that republicans are as dirty as the dems
I've pointed out in the past the GOP's flaws, including Dubya's
latest blunder with immigration-law changes that he's seeking or
proposing.

You're wrong again.

Meanwhile, it's the Dems, not the GOP, that has tried to steal
elections after having lost them, and has now begun to interfere with
elections before they are held. They truly are the Party of Crooks,
Losers, and Scum, and in so acting make the GOP look saintly at times
in contrast.

First, do no harm to the USA! Favoring the GOP as a lesser evil is
prudent damage control, and is the norm of intelligent, informed
independent voters such as I. The Dims are much more repellent and
pathological and toxic than the GOP to Americans of quality. (Sheer
numbers are all that matter in the elections, and the huge low-quality
Vulgar Vote is the Democrats' powerful electoral weapon, above and
beyond its vote fraud and electoral subversion.)
Post by Graphic Queen
which proves you know nothing baout politics but like to act like you
do.
You also are illogical.


Dave Simpson
JoettaB
2004-01-09 21:54:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by Graphic Queen
Funny how you can not admit that republicans are as dirty as the dems
I've pointed out in the past the GOP's flaws, including Dubya's
latest blunder with immigration-law changes that he's seeking or
proposing.
You're wrong again.
Meanwhile, it's the Dems, not the GOP, that has tried to steal
elections after having lost them, and has now begun to interfere with
elections before they are held. They truly are the Party of Crooks,
Losers, and Scum, and in so acting make the GOP look saintly at times
in contrast.
First, do no harm to the USA! Favoring the GOP as a lesser evil is
prudent damage control, and is the norm of intelligent, informed
independent voters such as I. The Dims are much more repellent and
pathological and toxic than the GOP to Americans of quality. (Sheer
numbers are all that matter in the elections, and the huge low-quality
Vulgar Vote is the Democrats' powerful electoral weapon, above and
beyond its vote fraud and electoral subversion.)
Post by Graphic Queen
which proves you know nothing baout politics but like to act like you
do.
You also are illogical.
Dave Simpson
One word: Bullshit
Dave Simpson
2004-01-10 01:55:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by JoettaB
One word: Bullshit
More likely would be: Power.


The Dims will do anything to get or keep it.


Dave Simpson
Graphic Queen
2004-01-10 02:58:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by JoettaB
One word: Bullshit
More likely would be: Power.
The Dims will do anything to get or keep it.
Dave Simpson
And so do the republicans. You are the most partisan person. You can't
even get your head out of your ass long enough to see that all
politicians are selling out our country. But apprently you don't care
as long as you have yours.

GQ
Dave Simpson
2004-01-10 17:37:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graphic Queen
And so do the republicans.
The Democrats have demonstrated far worse behavior.
Post by Graphic Queen
You are the most partisan person. You can't
even get your head out of your ass long enough to see that all
politicians are selling out our country. But apprently you don't care
as long as you have yours.
Meanwhile, my postings address routinely the reality, which is much different.

Keep up the "good" work. (* snicker *)


Dave Simpson
Graphic Queen
2004-01-10 19:29:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by Graphic Queen
And so do the republicans.
The Democrats have demonstrated far worse behavior.
Post by Graphic Queen
You are the most partisan person. You can't
even get your head out of your ass long enough to see that all
politicians are selling out our country. But apprently you don't care
as long as you have yours.
Meanwhile, my postings address routinely the reality, which is much different.
Keep up the "good" work. (* snicker *)
Dave Simpson
Only in your delusional thoughts. No, thank you because everyone here
knows that you are far too partisan to do anyone any good.
JoettaB
2004-01-10 05:56:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by JoettaB
One word: Bullshit
More likely would be: Power.
The Dims will do anything to get or keep it.
Dave Simpson
Well, at least the Democrats were bright enough not to vote the Dumb-ya
Shrub into office.
--=Cochise~|||®|||~Guardian=--
2004-01-10 15:45:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by JoettaB
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by JoettaB
One word: Bullshit
More likely would be: Power.
The Dims will do anything to get or keep it.
Dave Simpson
Well, at least the Democrats were bright enough not to vote the Dumb-ya
Shrub into office.
Remember, that weasel Bush wasn't elected. He was appointed my the Supreme Court, some of whom were nominated
by his corrupt daddy.

Fear not.... I'm no stinking Democrat. Neither is Bush.
Dave Simpson
2004-01-10 17:35:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by JoettaB
Well, at least the Democrats were bright enough not to vote the Dumb-ya
Shrub into office.
They were much more stupid. They voted for Gore even after the
eight previous years -- proving P.T. Barnum correct yet again. They
even often believed that "conference call" was truly spontaneous,
during the Gore coup attempt.


Dave Simpson
Cameron L. Spitzer
2004-01-10 18:31:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by JoettaB
Well, at least the Democrats were bright enough not to vote the Dumb-ya
Shrub into office.
Hundreds of thousands of Dems voted for Bush in Florida.
Several times the number of people who voted for all
"third" party candidates combined.
Several times the number of people who were illegally
disenfranchised because their names were spelled
almost the same as some felons' and the Dems didn't
defend their franchise.

And it's gonna happen again if the Dems don't wise up.
"Running to the center" to capture the "swing voter"
doesn't work, can't work, bad idea from start to finish.
The Dems need another FDR. But their corporate sponsors
won't let them run one. Big problem for the Dems.


Cameron
Graphic Queen
2004-01-10 00:29:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by Graphic Queen
Funny how you can not admit that republicans are as dirty as the dems
I've pointed out in the past the GOP's flaws, including Dubya's
latest blunder with immigration-law changes that he's seeking or
proposing.
You're wrong again.
Meanwhile, it's the Dems, not the GOP, that has tried to steal
elections after having lost them, and has now begun to interfere with
elections before they are held. They truly are the Party of Crooks,
Losers, and Scum, and in so acting make the GOP look saintly at times
in contrast.
More BS. All that happened during the 2000 election was that Bush
outstole Gore. Saying anything else and trying to put complete blame
on the dens also proves that youare biased and really are very
partisan and are not willing to accept the truth that our system is
broken and we need new blood very badly, someone and some people who
are not beholden to all of the special interest groups that abound.

GQ
Post by Dave Simpson
First, do no harm to the USA! Favoring the GOP as a lesser evil is
prudent damage control, and is the norm of intelligent, informed
independent voters such as I. The Dims are much more repellent and
pathological and toxic than the GOP to Americans of quality. (Sheer
numbers are all that matter in the elections, and the huge low-quality
Vulgar Vote is the Democrats' powerful electoral weapon, above and
beyond its vote fraud and electoral subversion.)
Post by Graphic Queen
which proves you know nothing baout politics but like to act like you
do.
You also are illogical.
Dave Simpson
Raymond
2004-01-08 09:16:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by tom
So it has finally dawned on you that the Republicans
are bought off by the huge corporations? The great
majority of Republican voters are too ignorant to realize
that they are voting against their interests.
At least the Dems pretend not to be bought off. And
they dont have to do much more than pretend in
large part because of the dimwitted GOP voters
voting against their interests.
***************

Right on both counts. But both are responsible for free trade as it
is called. And, remember when defeating communism and socialistic
economies was cool.

Well, defeating them both around the world, to replace them with
American capitalism has changed U.S.labor overnight and possibly for
the next few decades. Now U.S. labor faces direct competition in
global labor markets. And the excess supply of labor in these markets
will drive down wages , salaries, and employment in the U.S. Also, as
the dollar is likely to lose value under pressure from our growing
trade deficit, the decline in wages will not be compensated by a
decline in prices, and living standards will continue to fall.

Defeating communism was not always for benevolent purposes. Large
American companies always knew that with the collapse of the
philosophy, they could move their assets into the the gap and exploit
the labor forces and resources of the countries. Russia and China are
excellent examples. Even Iraq with its oil.

Today, a U.S. firm can produce abroad for U.S. markets. Instead of
locating its factories in Ohio, Pennsylvania or Illinois, the company
can locate in China and employ labor at less than a dollar and hour.
They also avoid expensive regulations, torts, employment taxes and
other costs of production.

What most, still employed, mostly jingoistic, Americans don't quite
understand is that when jobs are lost in manufacturing, other jobs are
lost. There is a chain effect that reduces the overall productivity of
the U.S. as a location of economic activity. And U.S. corporations
have made a strategic decision to move jobs abroad . Now, who is
willing to employ the displaced U.S. employees?

Worse yet. Taxes to governments at all levels are lost, which is
causing suffering to vital public services such as police and firemen,
school teachers, and more. Not to mention losses of health insurance
to families which will become costly to taxpayers if these people need
health care provided from government funds.

There are some sensible treatments that could prolong our third
world status, but no one is listening to the wiser men and women who
are up front with warnings of the coming depression in America. And
war and Pax Americana are not included in the remedies.


Prepare. Buy gold. Write your "ho" at MUSTANG RANCH EAST. Tell him
to:
BRING AMERICA HOME !!!!!

A thought at 4:00 a.m. from Bluerhymer

******************
Dave Simpson
2004-01-09 00:01:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by tom
So it has finally dawned on you that the Republicans
are bought off by the huge corporations?
I've been on record numerous times as saying Bush is too close to
the business community and oil interests when it comes to things
beyond this latest stunt, most nobably with China ("round-eye build
factories -- round-eye drive Chinese cars and fly in Chinese aircraft
in ten to twenty years from now") and with Saudi Arabia.

Bush is a liberal Republican and when he does something especially
too-far left and stupid it irritates even those of us who are
non-partisan but who sensibly abhor the GOP less than the more-toxic
Democrats.
Post by tom
The great
majority of Republican voters are too ignorant to realize
that they are voting against their interests.
The scummy and stupid people of this country reflexively vote Dim,
the party that owns them. Bush and his people are exploiting this to
hope that voters will see the alternatives to Bush in November and
continue to vote for Bush, as one explanation of why the decision was
made.


Dave Simpson
tom
2004-01-09 01:19:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by tom
So it has finally dawned on you that the Republicans
are bought off by the huge corporations?
I've been on record numerous times as saying Bush is too close to
the business community and oil interests when it comes to things
beyond this latest stunt, most nobably with China ("round-eye build
factories -- round-eye drive Chinese cars and fly in Chinese aircraft
in ten to twenty years from now") and with Saudi Arabia.
Bush is a liberal Republican and when he does something especially
too-far left and stupid it irritates even those of us who are
non-partisan but who sensibly abhor the GOP less than the more-toxic
Democrats.
Post by tom
The great
majority of Republican voters are too ignorant to realize
that they are voting against their interests.
The scummy and stupid people of this country reflexively vote Dim,
the party that owns them. Bush and his people are exploiting this to
hope that voters will see the alternatives to Bush in November and
continue to vote for Bush, as one explanation of why the decision was
made.
Dave Simpson
If this was true, why arent the Republicans fighting for
an end to the 30 second tv political ad?

Or does the 30 second tv spot aim at the intellectual?
Graphic Queen
2004-01-09 03:09:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by tom
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by tom
So it has finally dawned on you that the Republicans
are bought off by the huge corporations?
I've been on record numerous times as saying Bush is too close to
the business community and oil interests when it comes to things
beyond this latest stunt, most nobably with China ("round-eye build
factories -- round-eye drive Chinese cars and fly in Chinese aircraft
in ten to twenty years from now") and with Saudi Arabia.
Bush is a liberal Republican and when he does something especially
too-far left and stupid it irritates even those of us who are
non-partisan but who sensibly abhor the GOP less than the more-toxic
Democrats.
Post by tom
The great
majority of Republican voters are too ignorant to realize
that they are voting against their interests.
The scummy and stupid people of this country reflexively vote Dim,
the party that owns them. Bush and his people are exploiting this to
hope that voters will see the alternatives to Bush in November and
continue to vote for Bush, as one explanation of why the decision was
made.
Dave Simpson
If this was true, why arent the Republicans fighting for
an end to the 30 second tv political ad?
He can't admit that the repugs are just as bad, if not even worse
nowadays, than the dems. He is nothing but a ditto head it seems.
Post by tom
Or does the 30 second tv spot aim at the intellectual?
Dave Simpson
2004-01-09 19:38:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graphic Queen
He can't admit that the repugs are just as bad, if not even worse
nowadays, than the dems. He is nothing but a ditto head it seems.
Wrong again!


Dave Simpson
Dave Simpson
2004-01-09 19:37:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by tom
If this was true,
What I have written is true.
Post by tom
why arent the Republicans fighting for
an end to the 30 second tv political ad?
The reasoning is similar to that behind gerrymandering, which both
major parties do: It's pro-incumbency (as well as tougher on the
occasional independent or third-party candidate for other reasons).
Post by tom
Or does the 30 second tv spot aim at the intellectual?
No.


Dave Simpson
Graphic Queen
2004-01-09 03:08:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by tom
So it has finally dawned on you that the Republicans
are bought off by the huge corporations?
I've been on record numerous times as saying Bush is too close to
the business community and oil interests when it comes to things
beyond this latest stunt, most nobably with China ("round-eye build
factories -- round-eye drive Chinese cars and fly in Chinese aircraft
in ten to twenty years from now") and with Saudi Arabia.
Bush is a liberal Republican and when he does something especially
too-far left and stupid it irritates even those of us who are
non-partisan but who sensibly abhor the GOP less than the more-toxic
Democrats.
Post by tom
The great
majority of Republican voters are too ignorant to realize
that they are voting against their interests.
The scummy and stupid people of this country reflexively vote Dim,
the party that owns them. Bush and his people are exploiting this to
hope that voters will see the alternatives to Bush in November and
continue to vote for Bush, as one explanation of why the decision was
made.
Dave Simpson
Proof is that the dumb and stupid also voted for Bush and still stand
behind the man who will give their country away. More BS from you.
Dave Simpson
2004-01-10 17:38:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graphic Queen
Proof is that the dumb and stupid also voted for Bush and still stand
behind the man who will give their country away. More BS from you.
Wrong again. "Nice" going. (* snicker *)

I've already posted that many criticize this move and it may cost
Dubya the election -- even when his primary competition is an
otherwise-likely 49-state loser.


Dave Simpson
Ashland Henderson
2004-01-09 03:50:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by tom
So it has finally dawned on you that the Republicans
are bought off by the huge corporations?
I've been on record numerous times as saying Bush is too close to
the business community and oil interests when it comes to things
beyond this latest stunt, most nobably with China ("round-eye build
factories -- round-eye drive Chinese cars and fly in Chinese aircraft
in ten to twenty years from now") and with Saudi Arabia.
Bush is a liberal Republican and when he does something especially
too-far left and stupid it irritates even those of us who are
non-partisan but who sensibly abhor the GOP less than the more-toxic
Democrats.
Whereas others of us see Bush as a neocon republican and when he does
something especially too far-right and stupid it irritates those of
us who are non-partisan but who sensibly abhor the democrats less
than the more toxic republicans. In short, it's all in where you see
it from.
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by tom
The great
majority of Republican voters are too ignorant to realize
that they are voting against their interests.
The scummy and stupid people of this country reflexively vote Dim,
the party that owns them. Bush and his people are exploiting this to
hope that voters will see the alternatives to Bush in November and
continue to vote for Bush, as one explanation of why the decision was
made.
Basically pure crap. There are reflexive voters on both sides, plenty
of them at that. I've met scummy and stupid people on both sides as
well and they tend to be reflexive voters for their respective parties.
Intelligent voters swing based on issues and, to some extent, on people,
all the while being aware that they have to take everything politicians
say with a grain of salt.
Dave Simpson
2004-01-09 19:45:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ashland Henderson
Post by Dave Simpson
Bush is a liberal Republican and when he does something especially
too-far left and stupid it irritates even those of us who are
non-partisan but who sensibly abhor the GOP less than the more-toxic
Democrats.
Whereas others of us see Bush as a neocon republican and when he does
something especially too far-right and stupid it irritates those of
us who are non-partisan but who sensibly abhor the democrats less
than the more toxic republicans. In short, it's all in where you see
it from.
He's not too far-right at all (only the ignorant or dishonest would
claim he is), even when he throws an anti-abortion or
anti-fetal-science-related sop to the Religious Right.

The far right (most commonly personified by Pat Buchanan) has no
clout. The Religious Right is not monolithic, but where its members
are similar they are not far right in the sense the term means
"extremist" or holding views normal people associated with the far
right in this country.
Post by Ashland Henderson
Post by Dave Simpson
The scummy and stupid people of this country reflexively vote Dim,
the party that owns them. Bush and his people are exploiting this to
hope that voters will see the alternatives to Bush in November and
continue to vote for Bush, as one explanation of why the decision was
made.
Basically pure crap.
Your "rebuttal" is, indeed.
Post by Ashland Henderson
There are reflexive voters on both sides, plenty
of them at that. I've met scummy and stupid people on both sides as
well and they tend to be reflexive voters for their respective parties.
Intelligent voters swing based on issues and, to some extent, on people,
all the while being aware that they have to take everything politicians
say with a grain of salt.
The felons, the illegal immigrants, the quasi-legal immigrants, the
class-envy-ridden, reeking losers, those dependent on government
largesse with little to no brains reflexively vote Democratic. There
is no contest, nor argument. The Democrats "ignorance vote" bloc
gives the Dims a natural advantage in any large election, and the
Democrats exploit it reciprocally in the sense that they buy votes
with the government largesse they dispense.

The GOP has its own special interests (business, farmers, vets) but
to the extent that there is any reflexive voting, it's little
different than the nation-wide repudiation of liberalism's excess and
multiple failures and pathologies by the end of the 1970s, which
continues today in the form of conformist, normal citizens who are
repelled by robbers and freaks (and crooks, losers, and scum, who now
have "progressed" beyond vote fraud to subverting the elections
themselves by abuse of the judiciary, and whom only the dim indeed
support).


Dave Simpson
JoettaB
2004-01-09 21:51:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by Ashland Henderson
Post by Dave Simpson
Bush is a liberal Republican and when he does something especially
too-far left and stupid it irritates even those of us who are
non-partisan but who sensibly abhor the GOP less than the more-toxic
Democrats.
Whereas others of us see Bush as a neocon republican and when he does
something especially too far-right and stupid it irritates those of
us who are non-partisan but who sensibly abhor the democrats less
than the more toxic republicans. In short, it's all in where you see
it from.
He's not too far-right at all (only the ignorant or dishonest would
claim he is), even when he throws an anti-abortion or
anti-fetal-science-related sop to the Religious Right.
The far right (most commonly personified by Pat Buchanan) has no
clout. The Religious Right is not monolithic, but where its members
are similar they are not far right in the sense the term means
"extremist" or holding views normal people associated with the far
right in this country.
Depends on what you consider "far right." Bush is a war hawk that cuts
billionaires tax breaks and hands out big unbid contracts to his pals. He
pushes everyone that might disagree with him aside--shutting down his White
House email when people are irrate with him, designating special standing
places for those with picket signs when he comes around, has his staff
screen the news for him so his sensitive little ears won't hear anything
negative about him. Let's see... he also pissed of the UN and more than half
the world with his "axis of evil" and "bring 'em on" crap. He's built up a
ultra-conservative federal judgeship. AND... oh, that anti-abortion or
anti-fetal science sop. The ONLY thing he's done that MIGHT be considered
liberal is the illegal migrant stuff. AND, that, bub, isn't a true
democratic stance as it's just a means to get cheap labor... nothing caring
whatsoever about it.
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by Ashland Henderson
Post by Dave Simpson
The scummy and stupid people of this country reflexively vote Dim,
the party that owns them. Bush and his people are exploiting this to
hope that voters will see the alternatives to Bush in November and
continue to vote for Bush, as one explanation of why the decision was
made.
Basically pure crap.
Your "rebuttal" is, indeed.
Post by Ashland Henderson
There are reflexive voters on both sides, plenty
of them at that. I've met scummy and stupid people on both sides as
well and they tend to be reflexive voters for their respective parties.
Intelligent voters swing based on issues and, to some extent, on people,
all the while being aware that they have to take everything politicians
say with a grain of salt.
The felons, the illegal immigrants, the quasi-legal immigrants, the
class-envy-ridden, reeking losers, those dependent on government
largesse with little to no brains reflexively vote Democratic. There
is no contest, nor argument. The Democrats "ignorance vote" bloc
gives the Dims a natural advantage in any large election, and the
Democrats exploit it reciprocally in the sense that they buy votes
with the government largesse they dispense.
The GOP has its own special interests (business, farmers, vets) but
to the extent that there is any reflexive voting, it's little
different than the nation-wide repudiation of liberalism's excess and
multiple failures and pathologies by the end of the 1970s, which
continues today in the form of conformist, normal citizens who are
repelled by robbers and freaks (and crooks, losers, and scum, who now
have "progressed" beyond vote fraud to subverting the elections
themselves by abuse of the judiciary, and whom only the dim indeed
support).
Dave Simpson
Dave Simpson
2004-01-10 02:03:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by JoettaB
Post by Dave Simpson
The far right (most commonly personified by Pat Buchanan) has no
clout. The Religious Right is not monolithic, but where its members
are similar they are not far right in the sense the term means
"extremist" or holding views normal people associated with the far
right in this country.
Depends on what you consider "far right."
Well, this certainly is better than that puny "bullshit" response
(which only truthfully could be applied toward describing the Dims'
behavior as accurately noted by me).
Post by JoettaB
Bush is a war hawk
He's shoving the Road Map down Israel's throat.

Iraq and the Hussein problem were resolved once and for all after
public sentiment changed following the September 11 terrorist attack.
Post by JoettaB
that cuts billionaires tax breaks
The tax reductions were broad in scope, and those who pay the most
deserve the biggest reductions. Emotionalism and class-warfare
rhetoric gets nowhere.
Post by JoettaB
and hands out big unbid contracts to his pals.
True, essentially. That has been modified now, but that has been
true.

Of course, the winner nations deserve to win, loser nations lose the
contracts, and there are few nations with companies that have the
ability to do it right.

(The Halliburton-and-its-subsidiary arrangement actually is much
larger than Iraq. Who has rebuilt homes and other buildings in the
Balkans after the bombing there?)
Post by JoettaB
He pushes everyone that might disagree with him aside--
Untrue.
Post by JoettaB
shutting down his White House email when people are irrate with him,
designating special standing places for those with picket signs when
he comes around,
Given the behavior of the scummier parts of society, there's little
sympathy, even when they have been essentially bullied. (You are
naive if you think Hillary Cannon-Arm Clinton wouldn't be worse in
many, many ways.)
Post by JoettaB
has his staff
screen the news for him so his sensitive little ears won't hear anything
negative about him.
This is emotional fluff.
Post by JoettaB
Let's see... he also pissed of the UN and more than half
the world with his "axis of evil" and "bring 'em on" crap.
The more grown-up foreign policy is refreshing to people of quality.
Post by JoettaB
He's built up a ultra-conservative federal judgeship.
Ridiculously false. On the other hand, there is a huge need for
reform of a liberal activist judiciary that arrogates for itself
legislative and even executive powers.
Post by JoettaB
AND... oh, that anti-abortion or anti-fetal science sop.
That is a nitpick at most -- just a sop.
Post by JoettaB
The ONLY thing he's done that MIGHT be considered
liberal is the illegal migrant stuff.
Even your understatements need some work, JB.
Post by JoettaB
AND, that, bub, isn't a true democratic stance as it's just
a means to get cheap labor... nothing caring whatsoever about it.
I've not denied that we all suspect this was a favor for the
business community and that it may backfire and be exploited by the
Demmies.


Leave out the emotional fluff and other lightweight matter and stick
to the sound stuff next time.


Dave Simpson
JoettaB
2004-01-10 05:51:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by JoettaB
Post by Dave Simpson
The far right (most commonly personified by Pat Buchanan) has no
clout. The Religious Right is not monolithic, but where its members
are similar they are not far right in the sense the term means
"extremist" or holding views normal people associated with the far
right in this country.
Depends on what you consider "far right."
Well, this certainly is better than that puny "bullshit" response
(which only truthfully could be applied toward describing the Dims'
behavior as accurately noted by me).
Post by JoettaB
Bush is a war hawk
He's shoving the Road Map down Israel's throat.
Iraq and the Hussein problem were resolved once and for all after
public sentiment changed following the September 11 terrorist attack.
So, when is planing to take out the balance of the world dictators and
murderers? Seems like there's a few to clean out in South America. Also...
let's not forget Fidel. Oh... and North Korea and China and well... hell,
let's just kick everyone's ass. then we can have the whole world to
ourselves.
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by JoettaB
that cuts billionaires tax breaks
The tax reductions were broad in scope, and those who pay the most
deserve the biggest reductions. Emotionalism and class-warfare
rhetoric gets nowhere.
Bullshit. I'll bet you're one of those welfare billionaires, eh?
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by JoettaB
and hands out big unbid contracts to his pals.
True, essentially. That has been modified now, but that has been
true.
Only the ones that have come to light thus far. Wait until we take a closer
look. Where there is smoke, there is fire and lots of it.
Post by Dave Simpson
Of course, the winner nations deserve to win, loser nations lose the
contracts, and there are few nations with companies that have the
ability to do it right.
(The Halliburton-and-its-subsidiary arrangement actually is much
larger than Iraq. Who has rebuilt homes and other buildings in the
Balkans after the bombing there?)
Who gives a shit? We wouldn't be re-building anything if we weren't playing
world policemen or, in Bush's case, world bully.
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by JoettaB
He pushes everyone that might disagree with him aside--
Untrue.
You haven't been reading the news much have you.
http://www.freedomforum.org/templates/document.asp?documentID=17197
http://www.freespeech.com/archives/000333.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/12/04/eveningnews/main586959.shtml
http://www.portlandmercury.com/2002-08-29/city.html
http://lists.quantumimagery.com/pipermail/sdcpj/2003-June/000580.html
http://www.dccouncil.washington.dc.us/patterson/pages/prinfo/prMPDHearings.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A6540-2003Dec16&notFound=true
http://www.epic.org/privacy/protest/
http://www.uwire.com/content/topnews121603003.html
http://search.csmonitor.com/durable/1999/08/31/p2s1.htm
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by JoettaB
shutting down his White House email when people are irrate with him,
designating special standing places for those with picket signs when
he comes around,
Given the behavior of the scummier parts of society, there's little
sympathy, even when they have been essentially bullied. (You are
naive if you think Hillary Cannon-Arm Clinton wouldn't be worse in
many, many ways.)
Excuse me? Were we discussing Clinton? No, we were not. We are talking about
Bush.
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by JoettaB
has his staff
screen the news for him so his sensitive little ears won't hear anything
negative about him.
This is emotional fluff.
Yeah, why is it that he brags about not reading the newspaper. You suppose
he just can't read?
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by JoettaB
Let's see... he also pissed of the UN and more than half
the world with his "axis of evil" and "bring 'em on" crap.
The more grown-up foreign policy is refreshing to people of quality.
Bullshit again! If there were so, why is over half of the world protesting
AGAINST us? No, not against US, but against BUSH.
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by JoettaB
He's built up a ultra-conservative federal judgeship.
Ridiculously false. On the other hand, there is a huge need for
reform of a liberal activist judiciary that arrogates for itself
legislative and even executive powers.
Ahem... you'd better take a good look at the numbers... more republicans are
in than democrats, etc.
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by JoettaB
AND... oh, that anti-abortion or anti-fetal science sop.
That is a nitpick at most -- just a sop.
Post by JoettaB
The ONLY thing he's done that MIGHT be considered
liberal is the illegal migrant stuff.
Even your understatements need some work, JB.
I see you didn't provide one solitary cite to back up any flagrant
statements you've made.
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by JoettaB
AND, that, bub, isn't a true democratic stance as it's just
a means to get cheap labor... nothing caring whatsoever about it.
I've not denied that we all suspect this was a favor for the
business community and that it may backfire and be exploited by the
Demmies.
Leave out the emotional fluff and other lightweight matter and stick
to the sound stuff next time.
Spoken like a true neo-con... everything they don't believe in is emotional
stuff or lightweight. I got news for you, bubba. It ain't lightweight. You
need to get off your hillbilly porch and take a look at what's going on.
Post by Dave Simpson
Dave Simpson
Graphic Queen
2004-01-10 15:30:16 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 00:51:37 -0500, "JoettaB"
Post by JoettaB
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by JoettaB
Post by Dave Simpson
The far right (most commonly personified by Pat Buchanan) has no
clout. The Religious Right is not monolithic, but where its members
are similar they are not far right in the sense the term means
"extremist" or holding views normal people associated with the far
right in this country.
Depends on what you consider "far right."
Well, this certainly is better than that puny "bullshit" response
(which only truthfully could be applied toward describing the Dims'
behavior as accurately noted by me).
Post by JoettaB
Bush is a war hawk
He's shoving the Road Map down Israel's throat.
Iraq and the Hussein problem were resolved once and for all after
public sentiment changed following the September 11 terrorist attack.
So, when is planing to take out the balance of the world dictators and
murderers? Seems like there's a few to clean out in South America. Also...
let's not forget Fidel. Oh... and North Korea and China and well... hell,
let's just kick everyone's ass. then we can have the whole world to
ourselves.
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by JoettaB
that cuts billionaires tax breaks
The tax reductions were broad in scope, and those who pay the most
deserve the biggest reductions. Emotionalism and class-warfare
rhetoric gets nowhere.
Bullshit. I'll bet you're one of those welfare billionaires, eh?
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by JoettaB
and hands out big unbid contracts to his pals.
True, essentially. That has been modified now, but that has been
true.
Only the ones that have come to light thus far. Wait until we take a closer
look. Where there is smoke, there is fire and lots of it.
Post by Dave Simpson
Of course, the winner nations deserve to win, loser nations lose the
contracts, and there are few nations with companies that have the
ability to do it right.
(The Halliburton-and-its-subsidiary arrangement actually is much
larger than Iraq. Who has rebuilt homes and other buildings in the
Balkans after the bombing there?)
Who gives a shit? We wouldn't be re-building anything if we weren't playing
world policemen or, in Bush's case, world bully.
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by JoettaB
He pushes everyone that might disagree with him aside--
Untrue.
You haven't been reading the news much have you.
http://www.freedomforum.org/templates/document.asp?documentID=17197
http://www.freespeech.com/archives/000333.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/12/04/eveningnews/main586959.shtml
http://www.portlandmercury.com/2002-08-29/city.html
http://lists.quantumimagery.com/pipermail/sdcpj/2003-June/000580.html
http://www.dccouncil.washington.dc.us/patterson/pages/prinfo/prMPDHearings.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A6540-2003Dec16&notFound=true
http://www.epic.org/privacy/protest/
http://www.uwire.com/content/topnews121603003.html
http://search.csmonitor.com/durable/1999/08/31/p2s1.htm
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by JoettaB
shutting down his White House email when people are irrate with him,
designating special standing places for those with picket signs when
he comes around,
Given the behavior of the scummier parts of society, there's little
sympathy, even when they have been essentially bullied. (You are
naive if you think Hillary Cannon-Arm Clinton wouldn't be worse in
many, many ways.)
Excuse me? Were we discussing Clinton? No, we were not. We are talking about
Bush.
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by JoettaB
has his staff
screen the news for him so his sensitive little ears won't hear anything
negative about him.
This is emotional fluff.
Yeah, why is it that he brags about not reading the newspaper. You suppose
he just can't read?
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by JoettaB
Let's see... he also pissed of the UN and more than half
the world with his "axis of evil" and "bring 'em on" crap.
The more grown-up foreign policy is refreshing to people of quality.
Bullshit again! If there were so, why is over half of the world protesting
AGAINST us? No, not against US, but against BUSH.
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by JoettaB
He's built up a ultra-conservative federal judgeship.
Ridiculously false. On the other hand, there is a huge need for
reform of a liberal activist judiciary that arrogates for itself
legislative and even executive powers.
Ahem... you'd better take a good look at the numbers... more republicans are
in than democrats, etc.
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by JoettaB
AND... oh, that anti-abortion or anti-fetal science sop.
That is a nitpick at most -- just a sop.
Post by JoettaB
The ONLY thing he's done that MIGHT be considered
liberal is the illegal migrant stuff.
Even your understatements need some work, JB.
I see you didn't provide one solitary cite to back up any flagrant
statements you've made.
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by JoettaB
AND, that, bub, isn't a true democratic stance as it's just
a means to get cheap labor... nothing caring whatsoever about it.
I've not denied that we all suspect this was a favor for the
business community and that it may backfire and be exploited by the
Demmies.
Leave out the emotional fluff and other lightweight matter and stick
to the sound stuff next time.
Spoken like a true neo-con... everything they don't believe in is emotional
stuff or lightweight. I got news for you, bubba. It ain't lightweight. You
need to get off your hillbilly porch and take a look at what's going on.
You figured Dave out just like I did. You would be better off ignoring
him because he has no intention at looking at things with an honest
eye, just the eyes that Rush and his ilk tell him to use. He can't
think for himself at all and has proven that by his replies. You will
notice that when he run out of his dittoing he had to resort back to
Clinton bashing because it is all they know. Sad, but unfortunately
people like him do vote without thinking.

GQ
Post by JoettaB
Post by Dave Simpson
Dave Simpson
Cameron L. Spitzer
2004-01-10 18:35:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graphic Queen
On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 00:51:37 -0500, "JoettaB"
Post by JoettaB
Spoken like a true neo-con... everything they don't believe in is emotional
stuff or lightweight. I got news for you, bubba. It ain't lightweight. You
need to get off your hillbilly porch and take a look at what's going on.
You figured Dave out just like I did. You would be better off ignoring
him because he has no intention at looking at things with an honest
eye, just the eyes that Rush and his ilk tell him to use. He can't
think for himself at all and has proven that by his replies. You will
notice that when he run out of his dittoing he had to resort back to
Clinton bashing because it is all they know. Sad, but unfortunately
people like him do vote without thinking.
I think you're misreading the Simspon dupe. He's not a Rush Limbaugh
dittohead, he's a George Will dittohead. Same master, different packaging.
The Limbaugh people are proud of their ignorance. The Will people
think they're informed.


Cameron
JoettaB
2004-01-10 19:51:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cameron L. Spitzer
Post by Graphic Queen
On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 00:51:37 -0500, "JoettaB"
Post by JoettaB
Spoken like a true neo-con... everything they don't believe in is emotional
stuff or lightweight. I got news for you, bubba. It ain't lightweight. You
need to get off your hillbilly porch and take a look at what's going on.
You figured Dave out just like I did. You would be better off ignoring
him because he has no intention at looking at things with an honest
eye, just the eyes that Rush and his ilk tell him to use. He can't
think for himself at all and has proven that by his replies. You will
notice that when he run out of his dittoing he had to resort back to
Clinton bashing because it is all they know. Sad, but unfortunately
people like him do vote without thinking.
I think you're misreading the Simspon dupe. He's not a Rush Limbaugh
dittohead, he's a George Will dittohead. Same master, different packaging.
The Limbaugh people are proud of their ignorance. The Will people
think they're informed.
Cameron
He's about as "informed" as a turnip.
Dave Simpson
2004-01-10 20:07:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graphic Queen
You figured Dave out just like I did. You would be better off ignoring
him because he has no intention at looking at things with an honest
eye, just the eyes that Rush and his ilk tell him to use. He can't
think for himself at all and has proven that by his replies. You will
notice that when he run out of his dittoing he had to resort back to
Clinton bashing because it is all they know. Sad, but unfortunately
people like him do vote without thinking.
Figuring out that two plus two are five doesn't earn you any more
credit.

What's sad is that ignorant and dishonest and childish people like
you trash the vote in this country. Get real and grow up, or give up
and don't dumb down our vote in this country any more than we suffer
already!


Dave Simpson
Dave Simpson
2004-01-10 17:19:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by JoettaB
Post by Dave Simpson
Iraq and the Hussein problem were resolved once and for all after
public sentiment changed following the September 11 terrorist attack.
So, when is planing to take out the balance of the world dictators and
murderers? Seems like there's a few to clean out in South America. Also...
let's not forget Fidel. Oh... and North Korea and China and well... hell,
let's just kick everyone's ass. then we can have the whole world to
ourselves.
If you want to be emotional and foolish, go ahead, but don't expect
it to be accepted by those who know better.

An "Operation Clean Sweep" that simultaneously removed all rogue
nations' governments would be a great thing. However, it's beyond our
ability to do, carries with it the same risks that were hyped
ridiculously by the critics of the war with Iraq (in that case,
regionally: that the entire Middle East and North Africa could erupt
in violence), and it's simply not something that we want to do.

Richard Perle and David Frum were actually on a far-left NPR show,
Terry Gross's "Fresh Air," last week. Perle (with years of
experience) may have shocked or offended liberals, but he had logic
and morality behind him when he stated that those other rogue regimes
who "don't get the message" about Hussein's fate in Iraq are those
whom we should consider also removing. (Frum was just a blathering
talking head and the pale equivalent of a "desk killer" back in Nazi
Germany who couldn't handle it when attending the first mass murder of
Jews and other enemies of Nazi Germany in Eastern Europe.)

Now even Perle may be criticized as too ambitious, but whether you
like or can accept it or not, grown-ups find refreshing the more
grown-up foreign policy of the USA, superior to what came before it
(including giving in to North Korean nuclear blackmail and giving it
the time and more means by which to arm itself!), as well as the
attitude of the degenerate "Euro-Trash" and the dupish to treasonous
and pathological over-valuation of the UN, which far from being the
ideal it's purported to be, is both degenerate itself and an evil,
ugly anti-US-and-Western political weapon.

Even when it comes to alternatives to military force to improve the
world, something that's lacking in the CIA and notoriously in the
State Department, which is ridden with anti-American left-wing
political toxin (some there have actually referred to the Bush people
as "Nazi," just as have some scummier Euro-Trash overseas), fails to
engage in the kind of things any grown-up diplomatic corps which sees
the world realistically and actually wants to improve it would
advocate, such as this:


Introducing the first "how-to" guide for bringing democracy to the
world without the use of violence:

BREAKING THE REAL AXIS OF EVIL

HOW TO OUST THE WORLD'S LAST DICTATORS BY 2025

by Ambassador Mark Palmer


http://www.ceche.org/communications/Axis.html


http://www.asianresearch.org/articles/1350.html


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0742532542/002-0057046-0681649?v=glance


Etc.


Grown-ups find the US's more grown-up foreign policy refreshing.
(In fact, the corrections and improvements are long overdue.) As
exemplified by what Palmer has stated and advocated, our diplomatic
corps has been shown at least one example of where it can grow up,
too, in whatever ambitions it actually has.
Post by JoettaB
Post by Dave Simpson
The tax reductions were broad in scope, and those who pay the most
deserve the biggest reductions. Emotionalism and class-warfare
rhetoric gets nowhere.
Bullshit.
These days, "bullshit" from you is reflexive verification, little
else.
Post by JoettaB
I'll bet you're one of those welfare billionaires, eh?
No, just one of the people in the upper half of the income brackets
that pays over 90%, nearly all, the income taxes. I'm in the
parasitized, most-deserving-of-tax-reductions, class.
Post by JoettaB
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by JoettaB
and hands out big unbid contracts to his pals.
True, essentially. That has been modified now, but that has been
true.
Only the ones that have come to light thus far. Wait until we take a closer
look. Where there is smoke, there is fire and lots of it.
As I have written elsewhere, an even more smoke-fire association
(not that this one won't continue to be investigated; don't worry) is
with Cheney and the energy policy meetings and materials. (It's still
in litigation. Maybe they are hoping that the process can push
release of the information back until after the election.)
Post by JoettaB
Post by Dave Simpson
(The Halliburton-and-its-subsidiary arrangement actually is much
larger than Iraq. Who has rebuilt homes and other buildings in the
Balkans after the bombing there?)
Who gives a shit?
There's an emotional, low-IQ response.
Post by JoettaB
We wouldn't be re-building anything if we weren't playing
world policemen or, in Bush's case, world bully.
We aren't "world bully." Only the ignorant and those whose diseased
hatred of Dubya blinds them believe that. And to think that standing
up to, and acting to work against, the real bullies of this world is
criticized by you.
Post by JoettaB
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by JoettaB
He pushes everyone that might disagree with him aside--
Untrue.
You haven't been reading the news much have you.
http://www.freedomforum.org/templates/document.asp?documentID=17197
http://www.freespeech.com/archives/000333.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/12/04/eveningnews/main586959.shtml
http://www.portlandmercury.com/2002-08-29/city.html
http://lists.quantumimagery.com/pipermail/sdcpj/2003-June/000580.html
http://www.dccouncil.washington.dc.us/patterson/pages/prinfo/prMPDHearings.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A6540-2003Dec16&notFound=true
http://www.epic.org/privacy/protest/
http://www.uwire.com/content/topnews121603003.html
http://search.csmonitor.com/durable/1999/08/31/p2s1.htm
I'm not concerned with the dismissible Usual Suspects and protest
pukes (who may at any time include common vandal-thugs a la the
anti-globalism gatherings, and can be infiltrated by terrorists) but
with the real issues such as secrecy of the administration (they're
notorious for this) and other real issues.
Post by JoettaB
Post by Dave Simpson
Given the behavior of the scummier parts of society, there's little
sympathy, even when they have been essentially bullied. (You are
naive if you think Hillary Cannon-Arm Clinton wouldn't be worse in
many, many ways.)
Excuse me? Were we discussing Clinton? No, we were not. We are talking about
Bush.
I don't have to apologize if I wrote something that's over your head
but isn't over normal heads and shouldn't be over yours.
Post by JoettaB
Yeah, why is it that he brags about not reading the newspaper. You suppose
he just can't read?
He probably can read better than he speaks.

As to the papers, I and others routinely examine foreign sources
because our liberal media distorts and sometimes omits what really
needs to be reported. (Fortunately for the US there remains the
talk-radio alternative as well as a handful of more conservative US
media sources which present a much-closer-to-the-truth, more balanced
or at least "balancing" picture.)

Why should Dubya waste much time reading Pravda? He knows what's
really happening, and his people are making the news.
Post by JoettaB
Post by Dave Simpson
The more grown-up foreign policy is refreshing to people of quality.
Bullshit again!
Verification again.
Post by JoettaB
If there were so, why is over half of the world protesting
AGAINST us? No, not against US, but against BUSH.
There are a lot of losers in the world who are anti-US (in Europe's
degenerate case, it's those who envy and resent the US's primacy over
Europe), a consequence of 1960s-onward left-wing trends for the worse
among people throughout the industrialized world, and they're similar
to the hard-core anti-war, anti-Bush, anti-USA Usual Suspects here at
home. They're losers whose reaction is predictable, if still annoying
to better people. They're similar to the ignorant and envious in the
Third World who are conditioned by propaganda (which has its own
analogue in industrialized nations, including here in the USA).
Post by JoettaB
Post by Dave Simpson
Ridiculously false. On the other hand, there is a huge need for
reform of a liberal activist judiciary that arrogates for itself
legislative and even executive powers.
Ahem... you'd better take a good look at the numbers... more republicans are
in than democrats, etc.
We all know what the abuses by the courts have continued to amount
to, and in which direction.

Incidentally, those of us who aren't liberal have every right to
criticize and blame liberals if any judicial activism in the future
harmful to the USA is conservative instead of liberal. It's liberals
who broke the dikes, the bounds that define the proper role of the
juduciary versus legislative and executive bodies. You broke the
dikes, and you are to blame for the floods, even if they change
direction in the future.
Post by JoettaB
Post by Dave Simpson
Even your understatements need some work, JB.
I see you didn't provide one solitary cite to back up any flagrant
statements you've made.
None of my statements are flagrant.

I have made citations in this and other postings where appropriate.
Post by JoettaB
Post by Dave Simpson
Leave out the emotional fluff and other lightweight matter and stick
to the sound stuff next time.
Spoken like a true neo-con...
Maybe on another planet, but not this one.
Post by JoettaB
everything they don't believe in is emotional stuff or lightweight.
Wrong again.
Post by JoettaB
I got news for you, bubba. It ain't lightweight. You
need to get off your hillbilly porch and take a look at what's going on.
You need to get your head out in the air and get real.


Dave Simpson
JoettaB
2004-01-10 17:47:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by JoettaB
Post by Dave Simpson
Iraq and the Hussein problem were resolved once and for all after
public sentiment changed following the September 11 terrorist attack.
So, when is planing to take out the balance of the world dictators and
murderers? Seems like there's a few to clean out in South America. Also...
let's not forget Fidel. Oh... and North Korea and China and well... hell,
let's just kick everyone's ass. then we can have the whole world to
ourselves.
If you want to be emotional and foolish, go ahead, but don't expect
it to be accepted by those who know better.
PLONK to the third biggest idiot on the newsgroup circuit. You rate right up
there with Babs Walker, et al and BroJack the racist.
Graphic Queen
2004-01-10 19:31:25 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 12:47:52 -0500, "JoettaB"
Post by JoettaB
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by JoettaB
Post by Dave Simpson
Iraq and the Hussein problem were resolved once and for all after
public sentiment changed following the September 11 terrorist attack.
So, when is planing to take out the balance of the world dictators and
murderers? Seems like there's a few to clean out in South America.
Also...
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by JoettaB
let's not forget Fidel. Oh... and North Korea and China and well...
hell,
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by JoettaB
let's just kick everyone's ass. then we can have the whole world to
ourselves.
If you want to be emotional and foolish, go ahead, but don't expect
it to be accepted by those who know better.
PLONK to the third biggest idiot on the newsgroup circuit. You rate right up
there with Babs Walker, et al and BroJack the racist.
You noticed that too? Yep, I think I will plonk the ignorant and
partisan person who refuses to see his party as being just as bad for
this country as the idiot dems. Oh well, this is the stupid voting
public out there.

GQ
Bob Tiernan
2004-01-10 18:02:56 UTC
Permalink
In one of the most under-reported stories
of the past year, there's deafening silence
regarding the recent USSC decision gutting
the First Amendment by rubber-stamping the
McCain-Feigngold Bill (which, being also
an establishment thing, was signed by the
moronic Bush who "foolishly" [?] assumed
much of it would be declared unconstitutional).

Why do you on the Left support gutting the
First Amendment? Did you really sit down and
think this through? Do you realize that
additional incursions into free speech have
already been invited and that now this precedent
will make it easier for more restrictions?

Bob Tiernan
Ashland Henderson
2004-01-10 02:57:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by Ashland Henderson
Post by Dave Simpson
Bush is a liberal Republican and when he does something especially
too-far left and stupid it irritates even those of us who are
non-partisan but who sensibly abhor the GOP less than the more-toxic
Democrats.
Whereas others of us see Bush as a neocon republican and when he does
something especially too far-right and stupid it irritates those of
us who are non-partisan but who sensibly abhor the democrats less
than the more toxic republicans. In short, it's all in where you see
it from.
He's not too far-right at all (only the ignorant or dishonest would
claim he is), even when he throws an anti-abortion or
anti-fetal-science-related sop to the Religious Right.
Hmm. That makes many of the conservative cohorts who post here
ignorant or dishonest.
Post by Dave Simpson
The far right (most commonly personified by Pat Buchanan) has no
clout. The Religious Right is not monolithic, but where its members
are similar they are not far right in the sense the term means
"extremist" or holding views normal people associated with the far
right in this country.
I wouldn't totally agree with you. The religious right is fairly far
out there as well as folks like Pat Buchanan. Your opinion of what are
far right views, of course, may be different from mine.
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by Ashland Henderson
Post by Dave Simpson
The scummy and stupid people of this country reflexively vote Dim,
the party that owns them. Bush and his people are exploiting this to
hope that voters will see the alternatives to Bush in November and
continue to vote for Bush, as one explanation of why the decision was
made.
Basically pure crap.
Your "rebuttal" is, indeed.
No, actually it isn't. When you say garbage like "The scummy and stupid
people of this country reflexively vote Dim" you are basically spouting
crap.
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by Ashland Henderson
There are reflexive voters on both sides, plenty
of them at that. I've met scummy and stupid people on both sides as
well and they tend to be reflexive voters for their respective parties.
Intelligent voters swing based on issues and, to some extent, on people,
all the while being aware that they have to take everything politicians
say with a grain of salt.
The felons, the illegal immigrants, the quasi-legal immigrants, the
class-envy-ridden, reeking losers, those dependent on government
largesse with little to no brains reflexively vote Democratic. There
is no contest, nor argument. The Democrats "ignorance vote" bloc
gives the Dims a natural advantage in any large election, and the
Democrats exploit it reciprocally in the sense that they buy votes
with the government largesse they dispense.
And still more crap. Sorry, but your silly claims about democratic voters
may have reality in your own brain but they certainly don't extend any
further than that.
Post by Dave Simpson
The GOP has its own special interests (business, farmers, vets) but
to the extent that there is any reflexive voting, it's little
different than the nation-wide repudiation of liberalism's excess and
multiple failures and pathologies by the end of the 1970s, which
continues today in the form of conformist, normal citizens who are
repelled by robbers and freaks (and crooks, losers, and scum, who now
have "progressed" beyond vote fraud to subverting the elections
themselves by abuse of the judiciary, and whom only the dim indeed
support).
More silly nonsense from one of the would-be voices of the right. Sorry,
but having met and associated with numerous reflexive and non-reflexive
voters of both sides you are basically full of it.
JoettaB
2004-01-10 05:53:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ashland Henderson
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by Ashland Henderson
Post by Dave Simpson
Bush is a liberal Republican and when he does something especially
too-far left and stupid it irritates even those of us who are
non-partisan but who sensibly abhor the GOP less than the more-toxic
Democrats.
Whereas others of us see Bush as a neocon republican and when he does
something especially too far-right and stupid it irritates those of
us who are non-partisan but who sensibly abhor the democrats less
than the more toxic republicans. In short, it's all in where you see
it from.
He's not too far-right at all (only the ignorant or dishonest would
claim he is), even when he throws an anti-abortion or
anti-fetal-science-related sop to the Religious Right.
Hmm. That makes many of the conservative cohorts who post here
ignorant or dishonest.
Post by Dave Simpson
The far right (most commonly personified by Pat Buchanan) has no
clout. The Religious Right is not monolithic, but where its members
are similar they are not far right in the sense the term means
"extremist" or holding views normal people associated with the far
right in this country.
I wouldn't totally agree with you. The religious right is fairly far
out there as well as folks like Pat Buchanan. Your opinion of what are
far right views, of course, may be different from mine.
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by Ashland Henderson
Post by Dave Simpson
The scummy and stupid people of this country reflexively vote Dim,
the party that owns them. Bush and his people are exploiting this to
hope that voters will see the alternatives to Bush in November and
continue to vote for Bush, as one explanation of why the decision was
made.
Basically pure crap.
Your "rebuttal" is, indeed.
No, actually it isn't. When you say garbage like "The scummy and stupid
people of this country reflexively vote Dim" you are basically spouting
crap.
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by Ashland Henderson
There are reflexive voters on both sides, plenty
of them at that. I've met scummy and stupid people on both sides as
well and they tend to be reflexive voters for their respective parties.
Intelligent voters swing based on issues and, to some extent, on people,
all the while being aware that they have to take everything politicians
say with a grain of salt.
The felons, the illegal immigrants, the quasi-legal immigrants, the
class-envy-ridden, reeking losers, those dependent on government
largesse with little to no brains reflexively vote Democratic. There
is no contest, nor argument. The Democrats "ignorance vote" bloc
gives the Dims a natural advantage in any large election, and the
Democrats exploit it reciprocally in the sense that they buy votes
with the government largesse they dispense.
And still more crap. Sorry, but your silly claims about democratic voters
may have reality in your own brain but they certainly don't extend any
further than that.
Post by Dave Simpson
The GOP has its own special interests (business, farmers, vets) but
to the extent that there is any reflexive voting, it's little
different than the nation-wide repudiation of liberalism's excess and
multiple failures and pathologies by the end of the 1970s, which
continues today in the form of conformist, normal citizens who are
repelled by robbers and freaks (and crooks, losers, and scum, who now
have "progressed" beyond vote fraud to subverting the elections
themselves by abuse of the judiciary, and whom only the dim indeed
support).
More silly nonsense from one of the would-be voices of the right. Sorry,
but having met and associated with numerous reflexive and non-reflexive
voters of both sides you are basically full of it.
His only defense is to flame women with the old "oh, that's just emotional"
crap.
Dave Simpson
2004-01-10 17:30:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by JoettaB
His only defense is to flame women with the old "oh, that's just emotional"
crap.
Do you really know, or "know," Ashland Henderson that well?


Be very, very relieved that the suffrage is not weighted and
qualified by intelligence and knowledge and character quality.
Otherwise, the Democratic Party would be annihilated. (Weighing the
vote additionally by taxes paid, which is fair given the moral
failures of our tax system, would make the massacre even closer to
complete.)


Dave Simpson
Ashland Henderson
2004-01-10 17:52:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by Ashland Henderson
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by Ashland Henderson
Post by Dave Simpson
Bush is a liberal Republican and when he does something especially
too-far left and stupid it irritates even those of us who are
non-partisan but who sensibly abhor the GOP less than the more-toxic
Democrats.
Whereas others of us see Bush as a neocon republican and when he does
something especially too far-right and stupid it irritates those of
us who are non-partisan but who sensibly abhor the democrats less
than the more toxic republicans. In short, it's all in where you see
it from.
He's not too far-right at all (only the ignorant or dishonest would
claim he is), even when he throws an anti-abortion or
anti-fetal-science-related sop to the Religious Right.
Hmm. That makes many of the conservative cohorts who post here
ignorant or dishonest.
Post by Dave Simpson
The far right (most commonly personified by Pat Buchanan) has no
clout. The Religious Right is not monolithic, but where its members
are similar they are not far right in the sense the term means
"extremist" or holding views normal people associated with the far
right in this country.
I wouldn't totally agree with you. The religious right is fairly far
out there as well as folks like Pat Buchanan. Your opinion of what are
far right views, of course, may be different from mine.
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by Ashland Henderson
Post by Dave Simpson
The scummy and stupid people of this country reflexively vote Dim,
the party that owns them. Bush and his people are exploiting this
to
Post by Ashland Henderson
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by Ashland Henderson
Post by Dave Simpson
hope that voters will see the alternatives to Bush in November and
continue to vote for Bush, as one explanation of why the decision
was
Post by Ashland Henderson
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by Ashland Henderson
Post by Dave Simpson
made.
Basically pure crap.
Your "rebuttal" is, indeed.
No, actually it isn't. When you say garbage like "The scummy and stupid
people of this country reflexively vote Dim" you are basically spouting
crap.
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by Ashland Henderson
There are reflexive voters on both sides, plenty
of them at that. I've met scummy and stupid people on both sides as
well and they tend to be reflexive voters for their respective
parties.
Post by Ashland Henderson
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by Ashland Henderson
Intelligent voters swing based on issues and, to some extent, on
people,
Post by Ashland Henderson
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by Ashland Henderson
all the while being aware that they have to take everything
politicians
Post by Ashland Henderson
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by Ashland Henderson
say with a grain of salt.
The felons, the illegal immigrants, the quasi-legal immigrants, the
class-envy-ridden, reeking losers, those dependent on government
largesse with little to no brains reflexively vote Democratic. There
is no contest, nor argument. The Democrats "ignorance vote" bloc
gives the Dims a natural advantage in any large election, and the
Democrats exploit it reciprocally in the sense that they buy votes
with the government largesse they dispense.
And still more crap. Sorry, but your silly claims about democratic voters
may have reality in your own brain but they certainly don't extend any
further than that.
Post by Dave Simpson
The GOP has its own special interests (business, farmers, vets) but
to the extent that there is any reflexive voting, it's little
different than the nation-wide repudiation of liberalism's excess and
multiple failures and pathologies by the end of the 1970s, which
continues today in the form of conformist, normal citizens who are
repelled by robbers and freaks (and crooks, losers, and scum, who now
have "progressed" beyond vote fraud to subverting the elections
themselves by abuse of the judiciary, and whom only the dim indeed
support).
More silly nonsense from one of the would-be voices of the right. Sorry,
but having met and associated with numerous reflexive and non-reflexive
voters of both sides you are basically full of it.
His only defense is to flame women with the old "oh, that's just emotional"
crap.
Dave sometimes tends to highly emotional messages accusing others of
posting highly emotional messages. Reason is not his strong point. Or,
often, his point at all.
JoettaB
2004-01-10 19:52:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ashland Henderson
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by Ashland Henderson
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by Ashland Henderson
Post by Dave Simpson
Bush is a liberal Republican and when he does something especially
too-far left and stupid it irritates even those of us who are
non-partisan but who sensibly abhor the GOP less than the more-toxic
Democrats.
Whereas others of us see Bush as a neocon republican and when he does
something especially too far-right and stupid it irritates those of
us who are non-partisan but who sensibly abhor the democrats less
than the more toxic republicans. In short, it's all in where you see
it from.
He's not too far-right at all (only the ignorant or dishonest would
claim he is), even when he throws an anti-abortion or
anti-fetal-science-related sop to the Religious Right.
Hmm. That makes many of the conservative cohorts who post here
ignorant or dishonest.
Post by Dave Simpson
The far right (most commonly personified by Pat Buchanan) has no
clout. The Religious Right is not monolithic, but where its members
are similar they are not far right in the sense the term means
"extremist" or holding views normal people associated with the far
right in this country.
I wouldn't totally agree with you. The religious right is fairly far
out there as well as folks like Pat Buchanan. Your opinion of what are
far right views, of course, may be different from mine.
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by Ashland Henderson
Post by Dave Simpson
The scummy and stupid people of this country reflexively vote Dim,
the party that owns them. Bush and his people are exploiting this
to
Post by Ashland Henderson
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by Ashland Henderson
Post by Dave Simpson
hope that voters will see the alternatives to Bush in November and
continue to vote for Bush, as one explanation of why the decision
was
Post by Ashland Henderson
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by Ashland Henderson
Post by Dave Simpson
made.
Basically pure crap.
Your "rebuttal" is, indeed.
No, actually it isn't. When you say garbage like "The scummy and stupid
people of this country reflexively vote Dim" you are basically spouting
crap.
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by Ashland Henderson
There are reflexive voters on both sides, plenty
of them at that. I've met scummy and stupid people on both sides as
well and they tend to be reflexive voters for their respective
parties.
Post by Ashland Henderson
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by Ashland Henderson
Intelligent voters swing based on issues and, to some extent, on
people,
Post by Ashland Henderson
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by Ashland Henderson
all the while being aware that they have to take everything
politicians
Post by Ashland Henderson
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by Ashland Henderson
say with a grain of salt.
The felons, the illegal immigrants, the quasi-legal immigrants, the
class-envy-ridden, reeking losers, those dependent on government
largesse with little to no brains reflexively vote Democratic.
There
Post by Ashland Henderson
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by Ashland Henderson
Post by Dave Simpson
is no contest, nor argument. The Democrats "ignorance vote" bloc
gives the Dims a natural advantage in any large election, and the
Democrats exploit it reciprocally in the sense that they buy votes
with the government largesse they dispense.
And still more crap. Sorry, but your silly claims about democratic voters
may have reality in your own brain but they certainly don't extend any
further than that.
Post by Dave Simpson
The GOP has its own special interests (business, farmers, vets) but
to the extent that there is any reflexive voting, it's little
different than the nation-wide repudiation of liberalism's excess and
multiple failures and pathologies by the end of the 1970s, which
continues today in the form of conformist, normal citizens who are
repelled by robbers and freaks (and crooks, losers, and scum, who now
have "progressed" beyond vote fraud to subverting the elections
themselves by abuse of the judiciary, and whom only the dim indeed
support).
More silly nonsense from one of the would-be voices of the right. Sorry,
but having met and associated with numerous reflexive and
non-reflexive
Post by Ashland Henderson
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by Ashland Henderson
voters of both sides you are basically full of it.
His only defense is to flame women with the old "oh, that's just emotional"
crap.
Dave sometimes tends to highly emotional messages accusing others of
posting highly emotional messages. Reason is not his strong point. Or,
often, his point at all.
He's got about as many strong points as a turnip... opps... that would be an
insult to good turnips. heh heh
Dave Simpson
2004-01-10 17:27:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ashland Henderson
Post by Dave Simpson
He's not too far-right at all (only the ignorant or dishonest would
claim he is), even when he throws an anti-abortion or
anti-fetal-science-related sop to the Religious Right.
Hmm. That makes many of the conservative cohorts who post here
ignorant or dishonest.
Absolute numbers, perhaps; relative numbers, no way. And on here
(as in society elsewhere), the conservative posters typically thrash
the liberals whose postings are childish and fact-challenged.
Post by Ashland Henderson
Post by Dave Simpson
The far right (most commonly personified by Pat Buchanan) has no
clout. The Religious Right is not monolithic, but where its members
are similar they are not far right in the sense the term means
"extremist" or holding views normal people associated with the far
right in this country.
I wouldn't totally agree with you. The religious right is fairly far
out there as well as folks like Pat Buchanan. Your opinion of what are
far right views, of course, may be different from mine.
The real issue is how closely the word "far" matches "extreme."

On the Left, currently it's a beautiful setup, analogous to one and
two standard deviations from the mean. About 15% are so far or
shifted to the left that they actually believe our liberal media are
too conservative. Somewhere around two percent are the true "kooky"
cases (nationalize everything, convert immediately to a continental
European statist model, huge new government benefit programs for every
conceivable want, etc.), and they merit the separate word "extreme" or
"extremist."

On the Right it's not that way, because the Right consists mainly of
two different groups whose positions run at all places relative to the
political center, which is why normal people don't abuse "far right"
and these days, "extremist" as the Democratic politicians do
dishonestly, but instead refer to "economic" and "social"
conservatives.
Post by Ashland Henderson
Post by Dave Simpson
Post by Ashland Henderson
Post by Dave Simpson
The scummy and stupid people of this country reflexively vote Dim,
the party that owns them. Bush and his people are exploiting this to
hope that voters will see the alternatives to Bush in November and
continue to vote for Bush, as one explanation of why the decision was
made.
Basically pure crap.
Your "rebuttal" is, indeed.
No, actually it isn't. When you say garbage like "The scummy and stupid
people of this country reflexively vote Dim" you are basically spouting
crap.
You're wrong. Experience and observation shows what is reality and
has been developed since the 1960s. There are roots of that
development that go back to the New Deal and before, but it really
developed since the 1960s.
Post by Ashland Henderson
Post by Dave Simpson
The felons, the illegal immigrants, the quasi-legal immigrants, the
class-envy-ridden, reeking losers, those dependent on government
largesse with little to no brains reflexively vote Democratic. There
is no contest, nor argument. The Democrats "ignorance vote" bloc
gives the Dims a natural advantage in any large election, and the
Democrats exploit it reciprocally in the sense that they buy votes
with the government largesse they dispense.
And still more crap.
"I can't accept the truth" = "crap."
Post by Ashland Henderson
Sorry,
You should be -- very.
Post by Ashland Henderson
but your silly claims
BZZZZZZT

and: blowback
Post by Ashland Henderson
about democratic voters may have reality in your own brain
but they certainly don't extend any\ further than that.
You actually (and pathologically) may wish, but reality is there.
Post by Ashland Henderson
Post by Dave Simpson
The GOP has its own special interests (business, farmers, vets) but
to the extent that there is any reflexive voting, it's little
different than the nation-wide repudiation of liberalism's excess and
multiple failures and pathologies by the end of the 1970s, which
continues today in the form of conformist, normal citizens who are
repelled by robbers and freaks (and crooks, losers, and scum, who now
have "progressed" beyond vote fraud to subverting the elections
themselves by abuse of the judiciary, and whom only the dim indeed
support).
More silly nonsense
"truth I cannot accept" = "silly nonsense"
Post by Ashland Henderson
from one of the would-be voices of the right.
(* snicker *)
Post by Ashland Henderson
Sorry,
Yes, again -- you should be.
Post by Ashland Henderson
but having met and associated with numerous reflexive and non-reflexive
voters of both sides you are basically full of it.
More mirror talk (and fudgy English)! "Congratulations." (*
snicker *)


Dave Simpson
StopGun
2004-01-10 14:03:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Simpson
Has Bush just done something that will cost him re-election in
November?
Bush proposal citation:
"a new temporary worker program to match willing foreign workers with
willing U.S. employers when no Americans can be found to fill the
jobs."

Bush proposal may be designed to provide solution to a much bigger
problem for the administration these days: What single US employer is
today "crying out most for more 'workers'"? ....The US armed
forces...
Very recent new rules in the armed forces:
10,000 usd cash to "rejoin", for Iraq.
90 days after returning before it is "possible to leave the forces".
Etc.etc..
The problem was going to be solved with the help of other countries,
"coalition forces".
Is the US administration merely now invisibly opening up the doors to
suck in 500,000 former and new illegal immigrants into the US armed
forces?

Is this the way a typical interview at the mexican border will go in
the future:
"...Well, we have no jobs available of the type you like, but if you
don't want to go back to Mexico, we may be able to get you a well paid
job in the US armed forces...."

A general draft would kill the Iraqi war quickly. The US armed forces
is effectively an employer of paid soldiers. It is a mercenary army.
In the US it is called "a volunteer army". It sounds like an Orwellian
dream, but these paid soldiers are officially named "volunteers".

So where else are the jobs, Mr Bush?
Or is it simply "illegal today, gunfodder tomorrow", presented as an
act of deep compassion by a suddenly caring president?

Regards S.
Dave Simpson
2004-01-10 20:23:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by StopGun
Post by Dave Simpson
Has Bush just done something that will cost him re-election in
November?
"a new temporary worker program to match willing foreign workers with
willing U.S. employers when no Americans can be found to fill the
jobs."
Bush proposal may be designed to provide solution to a much bigger
problem for the administration these days: What single US employer is
today "crying out most for more 'workers'"? ....The US armed
forces...
I don't think so.

That would require something that we've already wondered about, and
suspect that he's not about to attempt at least prior to the election
(although given his and his administration's timing on other things
lately, one never knows!): it would require the draft.

As far as jobs are concerned, the Dems can avoid looking too
pro-immigration and wrecking their election chances among normal
Americans by concentrating instead on a different lefty angle, jobs.
They can say that this is just a cynical giving of another benefit to
the business community (the overtime law changes back this accusation
up) and they're not really even hoping that much to get any more
Hispanic votes because they have to be aware that Hispanics vote
mainly Democratic.

The Dems then can say, "Wow, what a deal for US workers -- move
offshore all the better high-tech jobs and bring in foreign workers to
depress wages in the jobs that remain or will replace them!" The
high-tech-associated people among the conservative electorate might
then be approached as well by the Democrats in noting aloud the
still-ongoing practice of H1-B high-tech immigrants who take a lot of
high-tech jobs. (Step 1: Move high-tech jobs to less expensive, often
less attractive, places in the USA. Step 2: Face workers reluctant to
relocate unless attracted by more pay to get them to move to the less
expensive, often less attractive, places in the USA. Step 3: Declare
a "labor shortage" and boost the H1-B worker quota(s).)

This is something that the Democrats may be able to grasp and
succeed with it, because it's similar to the situation where there
have been strikes lately over the issue of health care. While many of
the strikers are unrealistic in that employer-completely-paid health
care now is anachronistic, it still smarts those who have that
benefit, and they foresee more benefit cuts later, and what many other
Americans see is that it's not just those in the jobs "beneath them"
who are facing the risk of such changes, and that's why in many places
there was a good deal of support for striking supermarket workers,
even though they were expecting too much (retention of
fully-employer-paid health care) in today's world. It's not
necessarily today that's the big issue, but what about in the future?

Recall that Dubya's father's dad lost re-election not because of the
#1 issue, betraying the public on taxes (or "revenue enhancements,"
another insult to Americans that worked further to cost him
re-election), but he was seen at a time of large layoffs as out of
touch with the US public -- and this was exploited by a Democratic
Party that had a weak candidate (everyone wanted Mario Cuomo to come
to the Dems' rescue, and Cuomo would have been the object of a
stampede) but had someone who was a master sweet-talker and told
Americans in distress just what they wanted to be told.

Right now with this immigrant-amnesty thing (and please, Dubya,
don't go on record as saying "this isn't amnesty, it's enabling people
to work legally now"), and now with the former, ousted Paul O'Neill's
complaints, this has not been a good week for Dubya, and it may be
tantalizing to the long-shot Dean supporters and get some secret
cheers from them aside from or beyond their initial outrage.

I don't think this is a way to build up the military, S. I believe
to count on that there would have to be a draft, and

I don't think Bush
would be so daft
as to institute the draft
before November.

(My apologies in advance for the sick poetry.)


Dave Simpson
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